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The Manchester United Thread

  1. Quote Originally Posted by Theatre of Dreams83 View Post
    Chill guys chill. You really should not believe all that guff about managers wanting buisness done by a certain time. It simply doesn’t happen. Far to many factors in play both clubs, player, agent, families all involved in deals. Plus players have/still are away playing in competitions. Just chill out and wait for the season to start enjoy the summer stop believing the 100m budget bollocks also )))
    Oh, I'm not that worried about it happening before pre-season, although that would be ideal. It's literally that we are taking a bit too long to close deals, which shouldn't be the case. The 100Mn budget, I'm a bit worried about, but most publications also state that we have approached for a deal for Ndombele for 80 Mn, which would hardly be the case with a low budget.

    Still, the time taken, and the deals seemingly taking so long to complete one after another is a bit worrying.

    As for DoF zZ, I honestly don't know what they are playing at. Ideally, we need one, but we also have to accept the fact that they never will be independent of Woodward. Apparently, they are trying to look to form a committee like Liverpool, however, if executed badly, then sets us worse off. Guess that is a long waiting game to see what happens.

    Also, I don't think our season will be as disastrous as last time. We were playing excellently under Solskjaer, until fitness levels petered out and everyone kinda gave up. If we get fitness back up, and motivate players (and maybe deliver a swift kick up the arse), I see no reason why top-4 is beyond reach. Painfully honest, Liverpool and City look beyond reach, at the very least, for a couple of years. Consistency, ability and desire beats us, plus their squads are much better. But honestly, I can see us finishing above Tottenham and Chelsea, provided basics fall into place.

  2. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by zzeezzy View Post
    We need to hurry this up, Ole will be back with the players a week tomorrow..... he did openly say he wanted his business done by the time pre-season was getting underway. I think he'll be forfeiting that and it will be rather a different story again.

    Still need a CB, RB, RW (could count James... but shouldn't be our go to guy this season for that position), CM x 2.... we haven't replaced Herrera.

    That's without even considering departures, I expected more than just Valencia and Herrera (the latter whom shouldn't really of left anyway).

    I don't know why but we just seem too slow with deals, taking too much time with this AWB... Palace had their price weeks if not months ago. It's almost like we work on one deal at a time tbh the way we go about things.

    -----

    P.S. this is not a negative post, we just need to get a move on. This squad as it stands will struggle with top 4.
    He was silly to say he wanted them by 1st July, given tournaments and holidays

  3. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by zzeezzy View Post
    It's just all a bit odd.... we're not learning from our mistakes in the transfer market seemingly, going to run out of time once again and have a squad that is a mix of players the manager wants and doesn't want. Which is recipe for disaster really, like last season under Mourinho all over again but obviously Solskjaer won't moan about it I imagine.

    This non-existent Director of football is needed more than ever.... the fact we don't realise it is really worrying. I think Woodward does realise it, he just doesn't want one where it will have any bearing on his power. Sad really.

    Maybe we will see things pick up.... but not going to hold my breath.
    The window closes in august. Time isn't an issue right now. Even pre season is still a few weeks away
    Scouseinthehouse likes this.

  4. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by Sherkey View Post
    Oh, I'm not that worried about it happening before pre-season, although that would be ideal. It's literally that we are taking a bit too long to close deals, which shouldn't be the case. The 100Mn budget, I'm a bit worried about, but most publications also state that we have approached for a deal for Ndombele for 80 Mn, which would hardly be the case with a low budget.

    Still, the time taken, and the deals seemingly taking so long to complete one after another is a bit worrying.

    As for DoF zZ, I honestly don't know what they are playing at. Ideally, we need one, but we also have to accept the fact that they never will be independent of Woodward. Apparently, they are trying to look to form a committee like Liverpool, however, if executed badly, then sets us worse off. Guess that is a long waiting game to see what happens.

    Also, I don't think our season will be as disastrous as last time. We were playing excellently under Solskjaer, until fitness levels petered out and everyone kinda gave up. If we get fitness back up, and motivate players (and maybe deliver a swift kick up the arse), I see no reason why top-4 is beyond reach. Painfully honest, Liverpool and City look beyond reach, at the very least, for a couple of years. Consistency, ability and desire beats us, plus their squads are much better. But honestly, I can see us finishing above Tottenham and Chelsea, provided basics fall into place.
    The only issue is the one at a time thing, which is odd, and Woodward lowballing when he should front up and move on. Apart from that the timing issue isn't really a thing.

    We're also almost certainly not signing a right winger

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Legend Incredimaria View Post
    Yo, have we all taken a look at Everton Soares?

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
    He's great. He thrives in one-on-one situations, has a good vision and is not afraid to shoot.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by brunoh View Post
    He's great. He thrives in one-on-one situations, has a good vision and is not afraid to shoot.
    We have Martial already on the left. Isn't Everton primarily a left Inside Forward?

    Honestly, if we can get in two CM and a CB (assuming AwB will be done), that will still work for me. Hell, get in Bruno Fernandes and a CB, we can still make do, to an extent. But we need atleast one of each, if not a second CM.

    As Mike said, don't reckon we are signing wide players (unless Lukaku leaves). Lingard/Alexis/James will be rotated there, I guess.

  7. Even if the window closes in august, the more time the new players have of pre-season, the more prepared we are the for the challenging first rounds. It's damaging that the manager has to wait to see if his tactics will fit a new player or that he doesn't know quite sure if player x or y will stay. All speculation for now, but is certainly better if we decide some things sooner than later.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Sherkey View Post
    We have Martial already on the left. Isn't Everton primarily a left Inside Forward?

    Honestly, if we can get in two CM and a CB (assuming AwB will be done), that will still work for me. Hell, get in Bruno Fernandes and a CB, we can still make do, to an extent. But we need atleast one of each, if not a second CM.

    As Mike said, don't reckon we are signing wide players (unless Lukaku leaves). Lingard/Alexis/James will be rotated there, I guess.
    Yes, he's a left winger.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Mike. View Post
    He was silly to say he wanted them by 1st July, given tournaments and holidays
    Makes me laugh how managers say this nearly every year lol. It literally never happens! But still will see the same line pushed out again next year lol.

  10. As ToD has pointed out there are more factors than just wanting a player to come involved in any transfer deals. Yes it would be nice to get all the action completed before the squad starts pre-season but it is rare that will happen. Buying and selling clubs would all like to get deals done to their own benefit so there will be give and take and that takes time to be agreed, the international tornaments will also affect things (just be thankful it isn't a world cup year as that really causes problems). As long as targets are achieved by the end of the window then I'm sure Ole and his team of coaches will be happy.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by brunoh View Post
    Yes, he's a left winger.
    The great thing about Everton it that he can dribble in tight spaces. He creates space against tight defenses. James, for the little i've seen of him, is great when he's allowed space to run. His dribbles are in full speed. We already have players that are dangerous on the break (Lukaku, Rashford, Martial, maybe even Lingard). But we can't open up teams that park the bus. That's why a RW that has this attributes would be so important to us.

  12. Greenwood scores England’s 3rd and a new signing




    Man Utd sign 16-year-old Spanish wonderkid Mateo Mejia from Real Zaragoza for £600,000 transfer fee.

    From what hat I can see is a goal scoring winger. Hannibal Mejbri expected to be done soon also.
    Last edited by Theatre of Dreams83; 4 Weeks Ago at 06:00 PM.

  13. Modern Day Legend
    Quote Originally Posted by Legend Incredimaria View Post
    Yo, have we all taken a look at Everton Soares?

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk
    Dunno' about Utd but L'pool should sign him just because.

    That would totally kettle the blues heads if he scored the Derby.

  14. Few reports going round that Mata took a 45k pw pay cut to remain at OT. And has been promised an ambassador role at the end of his contract.

  15. Modern Day Legend
    I was just listening to this to add weight to a reply to someone elsewhere and there's some interesting views on the AWB gamble for the price and the direction of the club from the Sunday Times excellent Johnathan Northcroft in particular (Castles is the downside but hey ho) that might be of interest.

    The Utd talk is from 21:17 through 39:23.

    https://play.acast.com/s/thetransfer...0-e221de6ede74

  16. Good news you transfer impatient transfer muppets )) Ducker saying Utd and Palace holding talks later today to finalise the AWB deal. And Ole wants to push forward with the Bruno Fernandes deal. Lukaku still in talks with Inter and Juve have enquired about Darmian.

    Also saying Ole is still interested in Longstaff on top of Fernandes. Inter also have made enquires about Sanchez.

    James, Fernandes, AWB, Longstaff and a CB will be a very good window.
    Last edited by Theatre of Dreams83; 3 Weeks Ago at 02:35 PM.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Theatre of Dreams83 View Post
    Good news you transfer impatient transfer muppets )) Ducker saying Utd and Palace holding talks later today to finalise the AWB deal. And Ole wants to push forward with the Bruno Fernandes deal. Lukaku still in talks with Inter and Juve have enquired about Darmian.

    Also saying Ole is still interested in Longstaff on top of Fernandes. Inter also have made enquires about Sanchez.

    James, Fernandes, AWB, Longstaff and a CB will be a very good window.
    In other words you've been reading the papers and there is no actual news!

  18. Quote Originally Posted by zzeezzy View Post
    In other words you've been reading the papers and there is no actual news!
    No because it’s from Ducker not some random toilet paper and Simon Stone of the BBC is reporting similar news so enjoy and cheer up you miserable sod

  19. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by zzeezzy View Post
    In other words you've been reading the papers and there is no actual news!
    Quote Originally Posted by Theatre of Dreams83 View Post
    No because it’s from Ducker not some random toilet paper and Simon Stone of the BBC is reporting similar news so enjoy and cheer up you miserable sod
    TBH you're both wrong. Clearly stuff is happening ZZ, but also it's not anything different TOD. Signings are still on going.

    Zz you need to stop acting like its the end of the world, its boring and inaccurate, Tod you need to stop acting like every tweet is news, its boring and inaccurate

  20. Eh, we will make more signings, atleast one more for sure, it's fine. It's just that it will stretch on forever, and make us want to tear our hair out by the time it gets completed. Also, doesn't help facts that everyone gets linked, and noone has any actual information (good thing, mind, club atleast seems to have learned something from Moyes).

    I reckon we should be able to complete both AwB and Fernandes, hopefully. What business we do after that is the more important question. Another CM and a CB, and it's a really good window.

    Oh, and just for the record, Ndombele over Longstaff. Just saying.
    Mike. and Theatre of Dreams83 like this.

  21. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by Sherkey View Post
    Eh, we will make more signings, atleast one more for sure, it's fine. It's just that it will stretch on forever, and make us want to tear our hair out by the time it gets completed. Also, doesn't help facts that everyone gets linked, and noone has any actual information (good thing, mind, club atleast seems to have learned something from Moyes).

    I reckon we should be able to complete both AwB and Fernandes, hopefully. What business we do after that is the more important question. Another CM and a CB, and it's a really good window.

    Oh, and just for the record, Ndombele over Longstaff. Just saying.
    Ndombele and Dias would be the best window we've probably ever had


  22. ?

    Two years ago Inter Milan refused to sell Ivan Perisic to Manchester United for less than £48m. United well within their rights not to accept a penny less than £75m for Romelu Lukaku

    Damn right! And the fact Perisic only had 1yr left on his contract. I’m actually happy Ed/Judge are not having us get our pants down all the time!

  23. Fecking hell im dreading VAR in the Prem!

  24. FRIENDLY:


    Man Utd U23 v Swindon Town.


    Away game with a 19:30 kick-off on 23rd July

  25. Official confirmation from Zaragoza that we have signed Spanish winger Matteo Majia

    Zaragoza have released a statement saying they have reached an agreement with United https://www.realzaragoza.com/notici...-mateo-mej-y-el-inter-s-del-manchester-united
    Last edited by Theatre of Dreams83; 3 Weeks Ago at 10:36 PM.

  26. D9bXzAyXoAAJFI-.jpeg

    That's how important Pogba was to us this season and how deeply unbalanced our squad is.
    Last edited by brunoh; 3 Weeks Ago at 11:23 PM.

  27. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by brunoh View Post
    Attachment 1209796

    That's how important Pogba was to us this season and how deeply unbalanced our squad is.
    Conversely, show how much everyone else underperformed. It doesn't matter who you bring in, if the current squad doesn't step up you're fucked anyway. It's why I worry less about transfers than any else.

  28. Quote Originally Posted by Mike. View Post
    Conversely, show how much everyone else underperformed. It doesn't matter who you bring in, if the current squad doesn't step up you're fucked anyway. It's why I worry less about transfers than any else.
    While i agree that some players underperformed, i'd argue that for most it's as good as it gets.

  29. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by brunoh View Post
    While i agree that some players underperformed, i'd argue that for most it's as good as it gets.
    Given that we've seen virtually all of them perform better, I'd argue that's not true. And if it really was, then we might as well pack in the transfers as well

  30. Quote Originally Posted by Mike. View Post
    Given that we've seen virtually all of them perform better, I'd argue that's not true. And if it really was, then we might as well pack in the transfers as well
    De Gea, Lukaku and Sanchez underperformed. Matic had two bad seasons in a row, hardly a surprise now. Fred had a necessary time to adapt to a new league, but we have no record of him in a top league (i still believe in him).

    Martial has always been hit and miss. Last season wasn't even his worst in terms of goals and starts. Rashford actually had his most prolific season yet. Shaw, Lindelof and Mctominay were solid.

    Jones and Smalling have always been inconsistent. Young is 33, his golden days are gone. Bailly is hit and miss plus injury prone. Nobody ever saw anything from Rojo and Darmian.Mata's season was discrete, as it has been for a while.

    That's about it.

  31. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by brunoh View Post
    De Gea, Lukaku and Sanchez underperformed. Matic had two bad seasons in a row, hardly a surprise now. Fred had a necessary time to adapt to a new league, but we have no record of him in a top league (i still believe in him).

    Martial has always been hit and miss. Last season wasn't even his worst in terms of goals and starts. Rashford actually had his most prolific season yet. Shaw, Lindelof and Mctominay were solid.

    Jones and Smalling have always been inconsistent. Young is 33, his golden days are gone. Bailly is hit and miss plus injury prone. Nobody ever saw anything from Rojo and Darmian.Mata's season was discrete, as it has been for a while.

    That's about it.
    And almost every single player underperformed. We saw for 2 months, what they could do, and they beat almost everything in front of them. Using the very players you mentioned, the key is extending that into a season with people staying fit.

    This idea that transfers are the sole key is a fantasy, current players will have to step up regardless
    Last edited by Mike.; 3 Weeks Ago at 01:28 AM.

  32. Quote Originally Posted by Mike. View Post
    And almost every single player underperformed. We saw for 2 months, what they could do, and they beat almost everything in front of them. Using the very players you mentioned, the key is extending that into a season with people staying fit.

    This idea that transfers are the sole key is a fantasy, current players will have to step up regardless
    If you take the right two months of every season, we would look like a serious threat in the league. The trick is to do it for an entire season, and this squad has never pulled it off.

  33. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by brunoh View Post
    If you take the right two months of every season, we would look like a serious threat in the league. The trick is to do it for an entire season, and this squad has never pulled it off.
    But that's not really true is it? Not like that 2 months And it was only a massive range of injuries that started the fall off. Again, if you think transfers are going to solve it all you're in for a massive shock.

    Of course the trick is to pull it off for a whole season, that's literally what I said. Part of good coaching is taking players that look like they are one level and lifting them. Thats what happened for a while, before injuries struck now the aim is to maintain that.
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  34. Quote Originally Posted by Mike. View Post
    But that's not really true is it? Not like that 2 months And it was only a massive range of injuries that started the fall off. Again, if you think transfers are going to solve it all you're in for a massive shock.

    Of course the trick is to pull it off for a whole season, that's literally what I said. Part of good coaching is taking players that look like they are one level and lifting them. Thats what happened for a while, before injuries struck now the aim is to maintain that.
    You can't develop something that isn't there, Mike. There's no way to coach Smalling so he can perform like Van Dijk. This players have been coached ther whole life, and most of them have played under 3 managers in Man Utd alone.

  35. Quote Originally Posted by Mike. View Post
    But that's not really true is it? Not like that 2 months And it was only a massive range of injuries that started the fall off. Again, if you think transfers are going to solve it all you're in for a massive shock.

    Of course the trick is to pull it off for a whole season, that's literally what I said. Part of good coaching is taking players that look like they are one level and lifting them. Thats what happened for a while, before injuries struck now the aim is to maintain that.
    This. Can't over-stress this. Part of good coaching is take players and elevate them beyond perception. This is what is happening under Poch at Tottenham and what always used to happen under Fergie over here. If we can't do this properly, then no amount of transfers is going to do us any good. Remember, players also want to be under a manager who can improve them, which is why you have players wanting to play for Guardiola and Klopp as of now.

    De Gea, Shaw, Lindelof, Dalot, Pogba, McTominay, Martial, Rashford, Lukaku - that's a pretty decent spine right there. Add to that players who can improve in Fred, Bailly, Sanchez, Lingard and it's not that bad, just not that devastating. The point is to complement the current squad this season, and fill the gaps. And then improve upon it the next season. It's a slow churn.

    Also, let's be realistic, No way are we improving the complete overall balance of the squad in one window. We don't have the resources, nor is it realistically possible. Get players' fitness up, motivate them and get them back on all gears again. Honestly, I don't think we have that bad of a squad as last season made us sound. Key transfers, and top-4 isn't a problem, but reaching City and Pool is, which we have to build for from then on.

    Also, fitness, I'm still puzzled as to what Mourinho was making them do. Literally no conditioning at all, almost like he was getting them fish-n-chips during that time and asking them to stay back instead of run.
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  36. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by brunoh View Post
    You can't develop something that isn't there, Mike. There's no way to coach Smalling so he can perform like Van Dijk. This players have been coached ther whole life, and most of them have played under 3 managers in Man Utd alone.
    You can coach him to better with the ball at his feet. You can work on defensive shape that fits how you actually want to play. I feel you have a narrow view of coaching that doesn't really map to its reality. It's not a fixed concept

    No one is saying he's going to be VvD, but, even incremental improvements across a squad stack up massively.
    Last edited by Mike.; 3 Weeks Ago at 03:16 AM.
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  37. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by Sherkey View Post
    This. Can't over-stress this. Part of good coaching is take players and elevate them beyond perception. This is what is happening under Poch at Tottenham and what always used to happen under Fergie over here. If we can't do this properly, then no amount of transfers is going to do us any good. Remember, players also want to be under a manager who can improve them, which is why you have players wanting to play for Guardiola and Klopp as of now.

    De Gea, Shaw, Lindelof, Dalot, Pogba, McTominay, Martial, Rashford, Lukaku - that's a pretty decent spine right there. Add to that players who can improve in Fred, Bailly, Sanchez, Lingard and it's not that bad, just not that devastating. The point is to complement the current squad this season, and fill the gaps. And then improve upon it the next season. It's a slow churn.

    Also, let's be realistic, No way are we improving the complete overall balance of the squad in one window. We don't have the resources, nor is it realistically possible. Get players' fitness up, motivate them and get them back on all gears again. Honestly, I don't think we have that bad of a squad as last season made us sound. Key transfers, and top-4 isn't a problem, but reaching City and Pool is, which we have to build for from then on.

    Also, fitness, I'm still puzzled as to what Mourinho was making them do. Literally no conditioning at all, almost like he was getting them fish-n-chips during that time and asking them to stay back instead of run.
    Transfer talk has become such a be and end all that people have taken reductive views in football. Everything is about transfers, as opposed to working on what you have. People assume because something is one way, it therefore cannot change. What is it football that makes everyone see things in black and white? It's all very odd.

    Even without a single transfer, there's a massive scope for change that needs to be done. Imagine not being fit enough maintain a pressing game as a top 6 outfit? Forget who you sign, you're not getting top 4 if you can't solve that. And that's done purely by coaching
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  38. Quote Originally Posted by Mike. View Post
    You can coach him to better with the ball at his feet. You can work on defensive shape that fits how you actually want to play. I feel you have a narrow view of coaching that doesn't really map to its reality. It's not a fixed concept

    No one is saying he's going to be VvD, but, even incremental improvements across a squad stack up massively.
    Smalling was actually pretty good with the ball and bringing it out under LvG. So just shows you what decent coaching can do. You're right


    Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk
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  39. Modern Day Legend
    *Smiles. Jurgens ethos is spreading far and wide.

  40. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by Scouseinthehouse View Post
    *Smiles. Jurgens ethos is spreading far and wide.
    This was something we did at United long before Klopp even LVG was coaching the players. We're essential talking about the failure of Mourinho to actually coach the players

  41. Quote Originally Posted by Mike. View Post
    This was something we did at United long before Klopp even LVG was coaching the players. We're essential talking about the failure of Mourinho to actually coach the players
    I think the difference is Klopp knew what needed to be replaced and even if it took longer than expected, he eventually did.

    I feel what we are doing is still trying to work with the likes of Joe Allan and Sturridge even when you know that they aren't good enough for top level. The latter more due to attitude but still relevant in our case.

    Never thought I'd be using Liverpool as a comparison to our situation but there we go.

  42. Modern Day Legend
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike. View Post
    This was something we did at United long before Klopp even LVG was coaching the players. We're essential talking about the failure of Mourinho to actually coach the players
    Oh heck, we've put the emphasis on coaching and development/ continuity since the '70's. We got away from that when we lost our identity for a while the PL but have regained that in ravenous fashion again.

    It wasn't so much that it's a new thing under Klopp. More this now being discussed in here, which is new, and the emphasis on the importance of coaching up what you have and not just wanting to 'buy, buy, BUY!'

    The L'pool model is fast becoming the standard for a lot of big clubs change in emphasis. Which is natural as football follows trends and the most successful clubs are always the standard-bearers used for that. Which is pleasing to see as a legacy.
    Last edited by Scouseinthehouse; 3 Weeks Ago at 10:00 AM.

  43. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by zzeezzy View Post
    I think the difference is Klopp knew what needed to be replaced and even if it took longer than expected, he eventually did.

    I feel what we are doing is still trying to work with the likes of Joe Allan and Sturridge even when you know that they aren't good enough for top level. The latter more due to attitude but still relevant in our case.

    Never thought I'd be using Liverpool as a comparison to our situation but there we go.
    Except that patently isn't true for the most part
    Firstly Solskjaer knows what he wants to replace
    Secondly there is scope for virtually all the first team to improve. We know this because we saw it for two months.

    Now we need to work on the limiting factors that prevented that from going further, ie fitness. Concentration, etc. And augment that with transfers.
    Those who aren't able are either in then process or leaving or have been moved to squad status as transfers are executed
    Last edited by Mike.; 3 Weeks Ago at 10:16 AM.

  44. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by Scouseinthehouse View Post
    Oh heck, we've put the emphasis on coaching and development/ continuity since the '70's. We got away from that when we lost our identity for a while the PL but have regained that in ravenous fashion again.

    It wasn't so much that it's a new thing under Klopp. More this now being discussed in here, which is new, and the emphasis on the importance of coaching up what you have and not just wanting to 'buy, buy, BUY!'

    The L'pool model is fast becoming the standard for a lot of big clubs change in emphasis. Which is natural as football follows trends and the most successful clubs are always the standard-bearers used for that. Which is pleasing to see as a legacy.
    I don't know about legacy, United are (at least manager and below) simply going back to the roots of Busby and Co, it's only in the last 4 years that's eroded. It's less looking at Liverpool or city and more looking at what we did brilliantly for so long.

  45. Quote Originally Posted by Mike. View Post
    I don't know about legacy, United are (at least manager and below) simply going back to the roots of Busby and Co, it's only in the last 4 years that's eroded. It's less looking at Liverpool or city and more looking at what we did brilliantly for so long.
    True. And this was true then, and during the Fergie era. It was really good coaching, trusting the youth, focus on team than superstar egos, recognize and execute what you need (and to hell with extra available) and build a WC, world beating team. It's no co-incidence that almost all of the successful teams of United (and Liverpool too, I reckon) have to some extent or the other, followed this model. And invariably experienced failure when it moved beyond it, or drastically changed strategy.

    Problem with today's day and age is that there is a lot less time afforded. And while this happens for managers, it happens even more acutely for players. The pressure from fans can get over-bearing to drop non-performing players, without giving them time to adjust/adapt. And the insane pressure to get new players in to replace the older ones (without concern to the fact as to whether or not they can be improved, coached better, what not) - this is not a dig at United's player or zZ's comments, but more of a statement as to things in general.

    I still feel Tottenham are the true revolution bearers this season. The first in a long while to have no first team transfers (more because of the stadium, and not as a policy, but still), yet still improved drastically on last time, and punched way above their weight. When everyone (including me) was expecting them to falter and fall. Despite injuries to key players for vital periods during the campaign. Another testament to team belief and good coaching.
    Bujakaa92 likes this.

  46. Quote Originally Posted by Mike. View Post
    Except that patently isn't true for the most part
    Firstly Solskjaer knows what he wants to replace
    Secondly there is scope for virtually all the first team to improve. We know this because we saw it for two months.

    Now we need to work on the limiting factors that prevented that from going further, ie fitness. Concentration, etc. And augment that with transfers.
    Those who aren't able are either in then process or leaving or have been moved to squad status as transfers are executed
    Also to mention that even Klopp worked with what he had for a while, tried to wring every last bit before selling players. And some players, even they haven't been able to move on. Mignolet is still at the club, and tbf, nobody expected Lovren to still be a the club when Klopp came in.

    I also remember Scouse mentioning on the Liverpool thread about this a long while back too, about how Klopp was taking his time and assessing on his own before blindly getting rid of players.

    Also, regarding the Sturridge example, that's a bad one to use. Yes, Klopp isn't playing him too much, but he is still at the club as a backup, isn't he? (well, not anymore, but yeah). In that way, if our player incomings work, then neither Smalling or Jones will be starting, neither will Young (or for that matter, Sanchez). But they will all stay in and around the club for backup (a la Sturridge and Lallana when they are not injured).

    It would be worrying if the club hadn't identified problem areas, but that clearly isn't the case. The need for a and adequate wide player, a capable centre back, a good RB and CMs, which were needed and have been identified. Now, as you mentioned, the club have clearly identified targets, but may not be able to secure all this season, but there is a clear plan with regards to problem positions and the chance to fix/upgrade them.

  47. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by zzeezzy View Post
    Have we really identified the targets though? I've heard next to nothing about midfield and the winger position is just James..... which is not really solving the issue for me. Unless we sign another of course which is still possible, but there hasn't been any real links. CB is a position that is a must this summer and to me there hasn't been any great progress on that front either. We're running out of time tbh, like I say this AWB deal is taking far too long, still not got a deal agreed yet.

    I think you guys are far too forgiving for last seasons shambles and the current squad, but that's just my opinion!
    Yes. That is patently obvious. The fact that you've not been paying attention doesn't mean it's not happening. It's quite nice that were not trying to publicly court everything under the sun, but if you pay enough attention you see the targets.

    Again were not running out of time, please stop lying about this. Repeating it doesn't make any more true

    You say solving the winger issue: what is the winger issue exactly?

    Yeah but your opinion is always to ignore what's happening in favour of the worst case scenario you've decided on in your head. You can't have an accurate assessment if you only take the bits that suit your agenda forgive me if I don't put much stock it.
    Last edited by Mike.; 3 Weeks Ago at 01:12 PM.

  48. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by Sherkey View Post
    True. And this was true then, and during the Fergie era. It was really good coaching, trusting the youth, focus on team than superstar egos, recognize and execute what you need (and to hell with extra available) and build a WC, world beating team. It's no co-incidence that almost all of the successful teams of United (and Liverpool too, I reckon) have to some extent or the other, followed this model. And invariably experienced failure when it moved beyond it, or drastically changed strategy.

    Problem with today's day and age is that there is a lot less time afforded. And while this happens for managers, it happens even more acutely for players. The pressure from fans can get over-bearing to drop non-performing players, without giving them time to adjust/adapt. And the insane pressure to get new players in to replace the older ones (without concern to the fact as to whether or not they can be improved, coached better, what not) - this is not a dig at United's player or zZ's comments, but more of a statement as to things in general.

    I still feel Tottenham are the true revolution bearers this season. The first in a long while to have no first team transfers (more because of the stadium, and not as a policy, but still), yet still improved drastically on last time, and punched way above their weight. When everyone (including me) was expecting them to falter and fall. Despite injuries to key players for vital periods during the campaign. Another testament to team belief and good coaching.
    When it comes to patience fans are the worst. It's still June and people are bitching about transfers already.

    What United are currently doing is by no means flawless, but fans could do worse than simply shutting up for a couple of months in terms of this summers business alone, let alone talk about the future

  49. Modern Day Legend
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanjagl View Post
    Bruno Fernandes is going to be a huge player whoever signs him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vanjagl View Post
    1) He solves 2 issues. Goals from midfield and fits Ole's system of high pressing.
    2) He can play behind a striker, left or right in the midfield.
    3) Improving constantly in tactical aspect. Extremely intelligent player, something United are missing since Scholes retired.
    4) If Pogba starts dicking around, United will have ready replacement.
    5) Wouldnt cost that much.

    Its a no brainer signing, really is.
    Out of curiosity as I've not seen him outside of the two Portugal games the Nations League Finals earlier this month (Where I thought he really stood out for them. Along with Dias at the back. Played two completely different roles in two different tactical set-up's too which adds to your 3rd point above); do you honestly rate him that highly? Presumably you have watched him to judge?
    Last edited by Scouseinthehouse; 3 Weeks Ago at 01:16 PM.

  50. Quote Originally Posted by Mike. View Post
    Yes. That is patently obvious. The fact that you've not been paying attention doesn't mean it's not happening. It's quite nice that were not trying to publicly court everything under the sun, but if you pay enough attention you see the targets.

    Again were not running out of time, please stop lying about this. Repeating it doesn't make any more true

    You say solving the winger issue: what is the winger issue exactly?

    Yeah but your opinion is always to ignore what's happening in favour of the worst case scenario you've decided on in your head, forgive me if I don't put much stock it
    I thought we all knew that we needed a right winger, I know James can play there and he is better than what we've got... as we don't have one. But I still think when you watch him he's better on the left but even if we do use him on the right, we can't rely on him as first-choice next season. He'll be a great rotation option but I think we should still bring in a Pepe or someone like that to play there.

    I don't know to me it just kind of feels last 6 years we're going in circles, new manager, new philosophy, when that fails then we say how the squad isn't good enough. New manager comes in and has a bit of success suddenly we think the players are good enough again.

    Understand you have to give players time but the ones we are talking about have pretty much been a part of every failed manager tenure since Fergie. There is only so much you can do with them at this point. Can't teach an old dog new tricks.

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