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Underrated Dutch Talents
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  1. Underrated Dutch Talents

    I've been playing fm for some years now and I always get the feeling Dutch players and talents are underrated. When you take a look at all the greats the Dutch football academy has brought forward, with only 16 million Dutch residents, you HAVE to conclude this academy is one of the better ones in the world. This can also be seen by just looking at the u17, u19, etc squads. I always assumed that Dutch talents/players got underrated because of the lack of exposure. But now with the introduction of last years Next-Gen series at least
    the talents should be properly rated. This youth CL makes it very easy to spot the future top players because you can immediately see which playes are 10 steps ahead of their competition. Some players are just operating on a different level. Sterling(liverpool), Dongou(Barcelona), Fischer(Ajax) are just some of these players. Raheem Sterling, one of FM 12 greatest talents, was rated properly (in my opinion). Still his team lost to a superbly playing victor fischer. Fischer scored 3 goals and had 2 assists in this game. In the match against Barcelona he also produced 3 goals. Ajax reached last years Next-Gen finale (they should have been the champions). They won the semi final with 0-6 against liverpool (away) and the quarter final against Barcalona with 0-3 (away). The Ajax team of youngsters were the best team in the tournament and yet, none of these players are truly great talents in fm 12 as Sterling. Not even close. So you would assume this would be fixed in fm 13, you would assume the ajax youth would get a boost. Especially since they started the new Next-Gen campaign in a similar goals scoring fashion as last year. The scary part is that the Feyenoord youth has performed even better
    than the ajax youth the last couple of years. And these players were also not AMAZING wonderkids. Felipe gutierez was, and he can't even get a place in the starting 11 for FC Twente.

    The thing that buggs me the most is the fact that especially English talents are SO highly overrated. The English national squad isn't really performing and this is because of the lack of Brittish talent. Don't get me wrong, there are some great players like terry, lampard, joe hart, ferdinand, welback, rooney. But none of these players have the pure technical/creative class of let's say David Silva, Rafael Van Der Vaart, Diego, etc. Furthermore when looking at the Top teams in the PL, the players that really give a team that rare creative spark are always the foreign players. Some examples are Silva, Dembele, Van Persie, Hazard, Nasri, Kagawa, etc. Still in every FM there seem to be English wonderkids that have a high potential for those technical/creative attributes. (Obviously I'm making some generalization, seeing as Ramsey is a creative and technically gifted player).

    For some youth football fanatics; Google/youtube Anass Achabar, MEmphis Depay, Ouasim Bouy, Tony Vilhena, Victor Fischer, Mitchell Dijks, Stefano Denswil, Ricardo Kishna, Lucas Andersen, Locadia, Zakaria Baccali, Kyle Ebicilio, Karim Rekik, Jethro Willems, Ricardo van Rhijn, Bruno Martins Indi, Adam Maher, Jordy Clasie.
    These are just some underrated(not all are) and relatively unknown gems that have a bright future, I would like to see their rating a bit higher next year around.

    I am obviously biased, but I was just wondering if there are people who have a similar opinion. Looking forward to your responses.

    - A Dutch Ajax fan
    Last edited by eriksen8; 14/10/2012 at 07:54 PM.

  2. Seems a reasonable complaint given the logic. When you look at the players that Holland has produced in the past, it's clear that they are one of the european powerhouses, yet their youngsters are often underrated. I also find that the dutch produce less talented regens than the likes of England, Italy, Spain, France and Germany, when realistically they should probably be on par.
    eriksen8 likes this.

  3. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Manchester United Super Moderator
    #3
    Quote Originally Posted by eriksen8 View Post
    I've been playing fm for some years now and I always get the feeling Dutch players and talents are underrated. When you take a look at all the greats the Dutch football academy has brought forward, with only 16 million Dutch residents, you HAVE to conclude this academy is one of the better ones in the world. This can also be seen by just looking at the u17, u19, etc squads. I always assumed that Dutch talents/players got underrated because of the lack of exposure. But now with the introduction of last years Next-Gen series at least
    the talents should be properly rated. This youth CL makes it very easy to spot the future top players because you can immediately see which playes are 10 steps ahead of their competition. Some players are just operating on a different level. Sterling(liverpool), Dongou(Barcelona), Fischer(Ajax) are just some of these players. Raheem Sterling, one of FM 12 greatest talents, was rated properly (in my opinion). Still his team lost to a superbly playing victor fischer. Fischer scored 3 goals and had 2 assists in this game. In the match against Barcelona he also produced 3 goals. Ajax reached last years Next-Gen finale (they should have been the champions). They won the semi final with 0-3 against liverpool (away) and the quarter final against Barcalona with 0-3 (away). The Ajax team of youngsters were the best team in the tournament and yet, none of these players are truly great talents in fm 12 as Sterling. Not even close. So you would assume this would be fixed in fm 13, you would assume the ajax youth would get a boost. Especially since they started the new Next-Gen campaign in a similar goals scoring fashion as last year. The scary part is that the Feyenoord youth has performed even better
    than the ajax youth the last couple of years. And these players were also not AMAZING wonderkids. Felipe gutierez was, and he can't even get a place in the starting 11 for FC Twente.

    The thing that buggs me the most is the fact that especially English talents are SO highly overrated. The English national squad isn't really performing and this is because of the lack of Brittish talent. Don't get me wrong, there are some great players like terry, lampard, joe hart, ferdinand, welback, rooney. But none of these players have the pure technical/creative class of let's say David Silva, Rafael Van Der Vaart, Diego, etc. Furthermore when looking at the Top teams in the PL, the players that really give a team that rare creative spark are always the foreign players. Some examples are Silva, Dembele, Van Persie, Hazard, Nasri, Kagawa, etc. Still in every FM there seem to be English wonderkids that have a high potential for those technical/creative attributes. (Obviously I'm making some generalization, seeing as Ramsey is a creative and technically gifted player).

    For some youth football fanatics; Google/youtube Anass Achabar, MEmphis Depay, Ouasim Bouy, Tony Vilhena, Victor Fischer, Mitchell Dijks, Stefano Denswil, Ricardo Kishna, Lucas Andersen, Locadia, Zakaria Baccali, Kyle Ebicilio, Karim Rekik, Jethro Willems, Ricardo van Rhijn, Bruno Martins Indi, Adam Maher, Jordy Clasie.
    These are just some underrated(not all are) and relatively unknown gems that have a bright future, I would like to see their rating a bit higher next year around.

    I am obviously biased, but I was just wondering if there are people who have a similar opinion. Looking forward to your responses.

    - A Dutch Ajax fan
    You make some decent points, but you are also misunderstanding how players are rated.

    Also the creative spark isnt quite true, when you look at United. That has almost exclusively been the domain of the domestic players, and Scholes in particular.

    Scoring 3 goals in next gen will not get you ratings. and doesnt make you better off than other player. its done over a consierable period of games.

  4. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Manchester United Super Moderator
    #4
    Quote Originally Posted by fuelledbypassion View Post
    Seems a reasonable complaint given the logic. When you look at the players that Holland has produced in the past, it's clear that they are one of the european powerhouses, yet their youngsters are often underrated. I also find that the dutch produce less talented regens than the likes of England, Italy, Spain, France and Germany, when realistically they should probably be on par.
    Not sure the dutch talent has been coming up like it has done in the past, so in many ways its fairly reflected, but perhaps that will change.

    Also, There is no way anyone can argue Rooney does not have technical class right up there with the best

  5. Leroy Fer!!!!!!

  6. Quote Originally Posted by Mike. View Post
    Not sure the dutch talent has been coming up like it has done in the past, so in many ways its fairly reflected, but perhaps that will change.

    Also, There is no way anyone can argue Rooney does not have technical class right up there with the best
    But the Ajax academy in particular has been responsible for producing the generation of Van Der Sar, Seedorf, Davids, De Boer, Bergkamp, Kluivert etc and then the following era of Van Der Vaart, Sneijder, De Jong, Heitinga, Pienaar etc. Surely when their youngsters are reaching finals and thrashing Barcelona on the way, you would expect better than currently comes through that academy?

  7. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Manchester United Super Moderator
    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by fuelledbypassion View Post
    But the Ajax academy in particular has been responsible for producing the generation of Van Der Sar, Seedorf, Davids, De Boer, Bergkamp, Kluivert etc and then the following era of Van Der Vaart, Sneijder, De Jong, Heitinga, Pienaar etc. Surely when their youngsters are reaching finals and thrashing Barcelona on the way, you would expect better than currently comes through that academy?
    Thats just it, the first lot has all retired, and the second lot are 28+, where is the next lot, hence the lower rating previously. Not saying it wont change for FM13, but you can see why it was lower.
    gogogo golem likes this.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Mike. View Post
    Thats just it, the first lot has all retired, and the second lot are 28+, where is the next lot, hence the lower rating previously. Not saying it wont change for FM13, but you can see why it was lower.
    I see what you mean, but they are still producing players and were ranked no.1 in the world in august 2011 (although the ranking system is a bit of a joke).
    Mike. likes this.

  9. @mike
    You name Paul Scholes, the Paul Scholes United had to bring back after he retired. I think this only reinforces my earlier claim that there aren't many technically gifted players coming through in England.
    My point is, with 50 million residents it's extremely poor whats coming through(or am I overestimating the English population). The Spanish have iniesta xavi, the Germans Ozil Gotze and I feel as if you SHOULD be able to do better. Do you agree or not?

    Concerning Fischer(and other Ajax Academy talents), I DO understand scoring 3 goals doesn't get you high ratings. That would be ridiculous. I think you misunderstood my point. These players were underrated. And I first claimed the low ratings might have been due to the fact that youngsters playing in Holland are less of a hype to the rest of the world and they get less exposure. These goals and assists should undo this. And I do expect him to have a great potential in fm 13. Not only because of his Next-Gen matches, some people find him to be an even greater talent than Eriksen. He just had a solid season, and that promisses him to be a great player in the future.

    The only reason I brought up the NextGen, is to underline the fact that there should be a few amasing wonderkids in that squad in FM13. What I mean is; Giving the inter NextGen players 5 wonderkids, the liverpool NextGen players 5 wonderkids and the Barcelona NextGen players 5 wonderkids and the ajax NextGen players only one would make no sense to me.

    You DO however have a point about the current status of the academy. The last years weren't the best in history, that's why Johan Cruijff decided to return to Ajax and he instated Bergkamp, Jonk, Overmars and de Boer (currently the manager, before he coached the youth squad, the one that reached the NextGen finales). Still I think they have done great last years. The last players that just left are (Tottenham), Anita(Newcastle), Van der Wiel(PSG), Stekelenburg(AS Roma). Also our first eleven are usually consisting of 8 academy players. So claiming the academy failed is wrong. I however do realise the quality of technical players declined the last years (since Sneijder/Van der Vaart). But now we have Eriksen, Fischer, Kishna and more who obviously still need to prove it. I firmly believe only the Barcelona Academy does better. If we take all players that came through from the academy since puyol they have a really great team. But if I collect all players came through from the ajax academy since then, Ajax would also have a great team. I even think more quality players came through the Ajax Academy. Barcelona does however have a extremely good draft these years with iniesta, xavi and messi. But it's impossible to maintain this every 3 years.
    Last edited by eriksen8; 14/10/2012 at 08:00 PM.

  10. It's the same with Portugal :/

    If you make a team from players formed in Sporting you would also have a great team
    Last edited by duca; 14/10/2012 at 08:38 PM.

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