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What to do if you just can't win
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  1. What to do if you just can't win

    I've seen numerous threads about FM13, ranging from people saying its got harder right through to the conspiracy theories that the games scripted to ensure you lose.

    If you are getting whipped in every game, or even if you are just struggling mid table when in charge of utd or city, it's probably about time that YOU admitted defeat instead of blaming the game.

    This watershed moment has been coming for a while, there have been signs of it for at least the last 3 editions. It's becoming increasingly difficult to simply accumulate some world class stars, throw them on the pitch and expect results from day one. Especially if you don't properly commit to things like training and tactics, and I mean PROPERLY. This just isn't realistic, look at the first galactico era at real Madrid as an example.

    The thing I've also noticed is people moaning that they hit the wall after a certain number of games. Ie they have a string of good results then bang it's like their tactics no longer work. 90% of these people are in charge of a big team. Surprise surprise this is just the game becoming ever more realistic.
    Barcelona aside, how many top teams play exactly the same way every week? If they did then the smaller teams know exactly what they can do to attempt to shut the top side out and snatch a draw or even a 1-0 win. Interestingly the people moaning about this 'problem' say they are winning a lot of games 4 or 5 nil and then going on a run of draws or narrow defeats.......

    Look to man utd this season as an example. Fergie was using 3 central midfielders and a front 3 that relied on rooney pulling wider. Then he started using the diamond a few games in a row. For the Chelsea game I think everyone expected the diamond, or maybe even the 3 centre mids to combat Chelsea's talented midfield, but no, he goes back to 2 proper wingers and tricks everyone, grabbing a win.

    If you are playing a smaller side, the AI is going to try and sit back, hit you on the counter, these possession 'wonder tactics' that have yielded great results against bigger sides won't necessarily work, this isn't a bug, it's realism.

    Now I'm not saying the game doesn't have it's fair share of bugs, of course there are problems with this game, just like every FM release before it. But complaining that the AI has worked your tactics out and AI teams are adapting to try and shut your team out (just like real life) or complaining that you just can't get any results with your newly assembled team of world beaters (just like real life) doesn't really make sense.

    Personally I'm enjoying the realism and the challenge. Studying how my upcoming opponents are playing and ADAPTING MY TACTICS to exploit their weaknesses is something that seems pretty alien to most FM players. I've been doing it for years with little/no noticeable result. This year finally I can do everything I've ever wanted. My oppositions left back is injured, they have a youngster, unproven at this level who is likely to be the only option. Firstly I talk about him in the media, trying to unsettle him, secondly I put my quickest player with the best dribbling skills on the right wing, thirdly I focus my passing down the right. Boom my winger gets 3 assists in a 4-1 win.

    Why play the same way every week if it isn't working? A lot of people seem to think this means scrapping your tactic totally, it doesn't. It means making subtle changes like the one I described. Or maybe moving one of your midfielders to DM, or AMC, or whatever. Trying to anticipate what your opposite manager is going to do to combat your tactics, as well as trying to exploit his teams weaknesses has added a whole new level to the game for me.

    So yes I'm still tearing my hair out when a silly match engine bug costs me dearly, but this will be fixed soon enough. In the mean time, I think people should have a close look at themselves before spitting The dummy.

    If you don't think you're up to this new challenge called realism, then luckily I have a solution. It's called FM Classic. If you yearn for 'the good old days' when all you needed to do to guarantee a win was name a stronger starting eleven than your AI opponent could muster, and play a semi sensible formation, FMC is for you.
    Lee, Kris, ceej360 and 66 others like this.

  2. Exactly what i've been thinking excellent post. One cookie for you

  3. exactly well said Jake

    I agree fully! We got so used to making a good tactic and putting out a similar team every match in other Fm's..
    I do the same as you, always changing things before games etc.. but due to the lack of impact it had for most parts of Fm12 I stopped doing it and became complacent!

    after playing a bit of Fm13 properly I quickly realised that yes, we still have glaring bugs but, it is a lot more realistic!

    I think SI have actually out done themselves this year, the FMC is there for the guys who just want to download a good tactic and play like they have been accustomed to for the past couple of years..

    I am actually enjoying the challenge and when you make a tweak like you mentioned about setting your winger to attack the young FB and it pays off, it makes the game that much more rewarding!

    Everyone needs to read this!
    moash and cerberus1 like this.

  4. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    I you Jake.

    Personally I'm enjoying the realism and the challenge. Studying how my upcoming opponents are playing and ADAPTING MY TACTICS to exploit their weaknesses is something that seems pretty alien to most FM players. I've been doing it for years with little/no noticeable result. This year finally I can do everything I've ever wanted. My oppositions left back is injured, they have a youngster, unproven at this level who is likely to be the only option. Firstly I talk about him in the media, trying to unsettle him, secondly I put my quickest player with the best dribbling skills on the right wing, thirdly I focus my passing down the right. Boom my winger gets 3 assists in a 4-1 win.

    Why play the same way every week if it isn't working? A lot of people seem to think this means scrapping your tactic totally, it doesn't. It means making subtle changes like the one I described. Or maybe moving one of your midfielders to DM, or AMC, or whatever. Trying to anticipate what your opposite manager is going to do to combat your tactics, as well as trying to exploit his teams weaknesses has added a whole new level to the game for me.
    This is what I've been getting across for the last few days. FM13 is a quantum leap over FM12 in this respect. What was somewhat of a luxury thing in FM12, is a necessity. If you are not being proactive, you will most likely get humped.
    Last edited by Mike.; 06/11/2012 at 01:56 PM.
    Jake and Raikan007 like this.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Jake View Post
    If you are getting whipped in every game, or even if you are just struggling mid table when in charge of utd or city, it's probably about time that YOU admitted defeat instead of blaming the game.
    Saved me a whole rant page myself Jake

    Its so annoying seeing people ranting about it. Clearly they are playing it wrong. If you know their are certain flaws, do something about it! Counter it. I have managed to, and ive got 101 games unbeaten so far (Admittedly I should as I am doing the moneybags challenge, but still).

  6. Quote Originally Posted by Mike. View Post
    I you Jake.



    This is what I've been getting across for the last few days. FM13 is a quantum leap over FM12 in this respect. What was somewhat of a luxury thing in FM12, is a necessity. If you are not being proactive, you will most likely get humped.
    I have too been converted

    agreed!

  7. I still think the games a pile of poo!

  8. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by Dunc View Post
    I still think the games a pile of poo!
    You work for them! What have you been doing?

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Mike. View Post
    You work for them! What have you been doing?
    Secretly making all the Newcastle players massively over rated..

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Mike. View Post
    You work for them! What have you been doing?
    Jacking off Miles and sexually harassing the only female who works there

  11. just played against 1st place Udinese away from home as 2nd placed Juve!

    I went and looked at Udinese's formation and tactic they have adopted and checked their past few results.. they had lost 2 in a row so I checked what formation these teams implemented and edited my tactic a bit to counter their's as well as what seemed to work for the other two teams.. all I did was push my fb's into wb position (as they had wb's) which were their only form of attacking width!

    I set my wb's to specifically mark them and completely played them out of the game while still having my wingers, who were not asked to cut inside instead of move into channels to attack their central 3 defenders getting in behind their wb's who sometimes pushed to far forward while setting to counter instead of attacking! I beat them 1:0 which some might think that I should have scored more..

    This years edition is not about scoring as many goals as possible, for me its about winning and keeping clean sheets and I am glad that I am now able to make these changes I have been doing forever, but they now actually impact the game and result a hell of a lot more than last Fm's..

    as you can see the whole team played well with most ratings on or just above 7.0 which is really good
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails What to do if you just can't win-udinese-v-juventus_-away-tactics-team-talk.png  
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  12. Quote Originally Posted by Raikan007 View Post
    Jacking off Miles and sexually harassing the only female who works there
    Don't think I have ever seen a woman in our office bar the masseuse. Even the cleaner is a bloke lol.
    Raikan007 likes this.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Dunc View Post
    Don't think I have ever seen a woman in our office bar the masseuse. Even the cleaner is a bloke lol.
    hahaahhaahahaa you make me laugh

  14. While i agree that this years version needs alot more attention I still find the dip in form absolutley horrid. I for one do check my opposition and do tweak my tactics and match prep etc.

    I think your rant has to wide of a scope as some seasoned players are having problems while using multiply formations and tactics. Like i said on my post i want on a 10 game run as Manchester City only scoring one goal. The vast implosion of my team was staggering.

    I'm going to pluck away tho and get into the mindframe to go into even more depth when looking at my opposition and how they play. To use your own logic do you ever see Manchester United scoring one goal in ten games? There's dodgy runs where you go completely out of form but never that bad.

    Anyway back to the drawing board with tactics I'll have to research more the formations and styles other teams use to beat the teams I'm currently struggling against i still think a tactic that beats Manchester United 6-1 Chelsea 4-0 and Arsenal 4-2 at home should be able to beat Aston Villa, WBA, Reading and Stoke at home especially when you have 20 plus shots 3 plus CCC and 5 plus half chances.
    Raikan007 likes this.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by sefiruso View Post
    While i agree that this years version needs alot more attention I still find the dip in form absolutley horrid. I for one do check my opposition and do tweak my tactics and match prep etc.

    I think your rant has to wide of a scope as some seasoned players are having problems while using multiply formations and tactics. Like i said on my post i want on a 10 game run as Manchester City only scoring one goal. The vast implosion of my team was staggering.

    I'm going to pluck away tho and get into the mindframe to go into even more depth when looking at my opposition and how they play. To use your own logic do you ever see Manchester United scoring one goal in ten games? There's dodgy runs where you go completely out of form but never that bad.

    Anyway back to the drawing board with tactics I'll have to research more the formations and styles other teams use to beat the teams I'm currently struggling against i still think a tactic that beats Manchester United 6-1 Chelsea 4-0 and Arsenal 4-2 at home should be able to beat Aston Villa, WBA, Reading and Stoke at home especially when you have 20 plus shots 3 plus CCC and 5 plus half chances.
    I fully agree with you mate its still flawed no doubt but I have started to see through that now..

    I am honestly 50/50 at the moment! I hate it but I also love it...

  16. Im having a problem with southampton cant lost 7 drawn 2 won 1, but that is to be expected i am southampton i probally shouldnt play attacking football even though my team dominates theyre not good enough in the final third

  17. FMC needs a bigger database, 3 countries is not enough.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by InValide jr View Post
    Im having a problem with southampton cant lost 7 drawn 2 won 1, but that is to be expected i am southampton i probally shouldnt play attacking football even though my team dominates theyre not good enough in the final third
    you should honestly try my new M&M tactic set to counter.. it may work out really well with your team

    http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/footb...ml#post1616376

    its got two dm's who play direct passes to the wingers who look to exploit the final third along with the strikers but also tight on defence having the two dm's patrolling the space in front of the covering defence!

    the game is still really flawed though so I would not stress out too much at the moment!

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Raikan007 View Post
    just played against 1st place Udinese away from home as 2nd placed Juve!

    I went and looked at Udinese's formation and tactic they have adopted and checked their past few results.. they had lost 2 in a row so I checked what formation these teams implemented and edited my tactic a bit to counter their's as well as what seemed to work for the other two teams.. all I did was push my fb's into wb position (as they had wb's) which were their only form of attacking width!

    I set my wb's to specifically mark them and completely played them out of the game while still having my wingers, who were not asked to cut inside instead of move into channels to attack their central 3 defenders getting in behind their wb's who sometimes pushed to far forward while setting to counter instead of attacking! I beat them 1:0 which some might think that I should have scored more..

    This years edition is not about scoring as many goals as possible, for me its about winning and keeping clean sheets and I am glad that I am now able to make these changes I have been doing forever, but they now actually impact the game and result a hell of a lot more than last Fm's..

    as you can see the whole team played well with most ratings on or just above 7.0 which is really good
    Btw Raikan are you playing on FMC or FM?

  20. Quote Originally Posted by dregana View Post
    FMC needs a bigger database, 3 countries is not enough.
    The Fm13 Bug and ME flaw thread

  21. Quote Originally Posted by dregana View Post
    Btw Raikan are you playing on FMC or FM?
    Fm mate will never ever play FMC

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Raikan007 View Post
    Fm mate will never ever play FMC
    Phew, just you had the FMC skin - was just making sure you wasn't testing your tactics on FMC (which is 10x easier)

  23. Quote Originally Posted by dregana View Post
    Phew, just you had the FMC skin - was just making sure you wasn't testing your tactics on FMC (which is 10x easier)
    hahahaa don't stress mate I have been around long enough, have a good evening!

  24. Yeah Raikan I'm going to sit down tonight take a deep breathe and get my season finished. Work out tow base tactics for home and away then also add instructions and roles for specific teams.

    If this is how demanding the full career is alot of people are going to get very frustrated very quickly and drop the game. People don't manage teams like City and United etc to have to sit down for 5-10 mins post match to work out how to beat Wigan lol.

    I'm 50/50 at the second i do like depth but i also think you shouldn't have to change multiply things per game to counter the opponent when that opponent is much weaker. Having far superior players should do the trick for the most part obviously you should lose to smaller teams but some of the swings have been beyond a joke.

    Meh getting huge urges to play FM sat in work not good, Reallllyyy not good only 7 hours to go
    RiotAct and kewlwarez like this.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by sefiruso View Post
    Yeah Raikan I'm going to sit down tonight take a deep breathe and get my season finished. Work out tow base tactics for home and away then also add instructions and roles for specific teams.

    If this is how demanding the full career is alot of people are going to get very frustrated very quickly and drop the game. People don't manage teams like City and United etc to have to sit down for 5-10 mins post match to work out how to beat Wigan lol.

    I'm 50/50 at the second i do like depth but i also think you shouldn't have to change multiply things per game to counter the opponent when that opponent is much weaker. Having far superior players should do the trick for the most part obviously you should lose to smaller teams but some of the swings have been beyond a joke.

    Meh getting huge urges to play FM sat in work not good, Reallllyyy not good only 7 hours to go
    then maybe consider playing FMC till the patch comes out and mess around in there.. no point in making a proper save now with any team..

    The quicker you and everyone realises that this is not Fm12 the better it took me a while!

    after doing a bit of research on my next opponent Siena a made a few (very few little tweaks) to my M&M tactic
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails What to do if you just can't win-siena-v-juventus_-stats-match-stats.png  

  26. FMC is garbage. I do relaise this isn't FM 12 but the leap in attention needed to be invested is huge, I don't mind struggling with a save afterall that's the challenge now to succeed with it now being difficult.

    I'm quickly coming to terms with the added intensity doesn't mean i agree with it as the game stands it's too far to the hardcore indepth aspect of the game.

    Like i said tonight i will sit down and will add a detailed manually scouting of my next opposition and make some changes. Do you make your changes in the pre-match screen or do you do it before the game comes around.

    I change my match prep directly after a game. If i can get into my second season with City qualifing for the CL i'll be happy considering new signings seems to make quite a impact I've had Maicon, Garcia, Sinclair, Nasatsic, Rodwell, Bale and Felliani settling into the team.

    Quit and play FMC pssssshhhhh i don't bloody think so

  27. This could just be me being jammy, but I am having some brilliant results with Newcastle in my first season just playing a fairly standard 4-4-1-1, short passing, through the middle, balanced, set to counter. For home games/games that could be considered 'easier' I play Cabeye and Anita in CM, with Cabeye set as a deep playmaker on support and Anita a CM set to defend. With Ben Arfa as the one behind Cisse this gives us a large amount of creativity, all 3 have high passing and creativity stats, and Anita as good tackling, positioning and anitcipation so does. Having Cisse up top as a poacher really helps, 20 finishing and all

    For trickier away days Tiote comes in, usually for Anita and gets set to ball winning, though for the away legs of the knockout stages in the Europa League I take out Cabeye and focus on keeping a clean sheet. So far with 10 league games left we sit in 3rd, 10 points clear of 5th, and with a couple of games in hand on Man Utd who currently top the league, with Man City in 2nd. I think the key to the tactic is its general simpilicity, when we dont have the ball we generally have 2 banks of four sitting infront of the opposition, we concede very few goals, and with the creativity of the Cabeye, Anita and Ben Arfa, and the finishing of Cisse, we are fairly lethal on the break.

  28. You're cute you know that? But i was playing wolves until december only lost 1 and 2 decisions, I beat Man United in the Capitol one cup and after i beat Man U I love 14 games straight. No goals scored, I have multiple tactics i use and I also train correctly, I didnt bring in anyone big especially since i am in the championship league, so wheres the answer to that one smart one?
    Last edited by seeryous; 06/11/2012 at 06:34 PM.
    J Jermyn likes this.

  29. the default 442 works well when you ae looking to mix things up and surprise opponents
    jgriff likes this.

  30. Nobody expected the diamond against Chelsea as United were murdered in the first half against Braga for having to much space down the wings.

  31. I'm loving the new game much more of a real game , ur not going to win ever game and if u did somethings not rite.

  32. Quote Originally Posted by J Jermyn View Post
    Nobody expected the diamond against Chelsea as United were murdered in the first half against Braga for having to much space down the wings.
    Chelsea don't have any wingers?

    Based on the start to the season; 3 man midfields and fergies plethora of wingers largely on the bench or out of the squad, i dont think anyone truly believed that a 442 (maybe 4411 if you include rooneys role) was going to be the starting line up against arguably the best midfield in the league.
    Last edited by Jake; 06/11/2012 at 07:00 PM.

  33. Quote Originally Posted by Jake View Post
    Chelsea don't have any wingers?

    No-one truly believed that a 442 (maybe 4411 if you include rooneys role) was going to be the starting line up against arguably the best midfield in the league.
    Chelsea play a 4-2-3-1 with Oscar/Mata and Hazard playing pretty wide. I consider them wingers or inside forwards, the point is they play wide and Uniteds diamond would of suffered big time.

  34. Youre right,I think people are going to love this version once theyve ironed out all the bugs(Arteta hitting indirect freekicks into the CROWD...being completely outplayed at home by tiki-taka Stoke...yet more instant equalizers...makes me wanna scream!).but at the moment,yes,I dont love it but i'll give it time
    Raikan007 and kewlwarez like this.

  35. Quote Originally Posted by cairnsay View Post
    This could just be me being jammy, but I am having some brilliant results with Newcastle in my first season just playing a fairly standard 4-4-1-1, short passing, through the middle, balanced, set to counter. For home games/games that could be considered 'easier' I play Cabeye and Anita in CM, with Cabeye set as a deep playmaker on support and Anita a CM set to defend. With Ben Arfa as the one behind Cisse this gives us a large amount of creativity, all 3 have high passing and creativity stats, and Anita as good tackling, positioning and anitcipation so does. Having Cisse up top as a poacher really helps, 20 finishing and all

    For trickier away days Tiote comes in, usually for Anita and gets set to ball winning, though for the away legs of the knockout stages in the Europa League I take out Cabeye and focus on keeping a clean sheet. So far with 10 league games left we sit in 3rd, 10 points clear of 5th, and with a couple of games in hand on Man Utd who currently top the league, with Man City in 2nd. I think the key to the tactic is its general simpilicity, when we dont have the ball we generally have 2 banks of four sitting infront of the opposition, we concede very few goals, and with the creativity of the Cabeye, Anita and Ben Arfa, and the finishing of Cisse, we are fairly lethal on the break.
    I play 4 - 5 - 1 with the toon, Cisse through middle with HBA and BA on the wings and I've had loads of success and it is fairly easy with my beloved Toon. I hate to admit but Krul, Colo, Stevie T, Cabaye, Tiote, BA, Cisse, Ben Arfa and Santon have outstanding attributes and whilst I believe they are a special group of players I was shocked to see their stats. 20 for finishing is mental. I'm running 49 leagues and only Huntelaar has 20 for finishing like Cisse. I thought RVP and Aguerro would be on par with Cisse and Huntelaar for finishing.

  36. Quote Originally Posted by ben_toon View Post
    I play 4 - 5 - 1 with the toon, Cisse through middle with HBA and BA on the wings and I've had loads of success and it is fairly easy with my beloved Toon. I hate to admit but Krul, Colo, Stevie T, Cabaye, Tiote, BA, Cisse, Ben Arfa and Santon have outstanding attributes and whilst I believe they are a special group of players I was shocked to see their stats. 20 for finishing is mental. I'm running 49 leagues and only Huntelaar has 20 for finishing like Cisse. I thought RVP and Aguerro would be on par with Cisse and Huntelaar for finishing.
    Finishing!

  37. I think what Jake said is pretty much it. And I'd say a second and third reason why you get bad results after a string of (really) good ones is complacency and disappointment. And I'm not just talking about your players, but about you as a manager as well.

    I've found myself (managing Everton) wanting to speed things up a bit, try and get a season done. The results had been good, but then we had to play Man City. I knew this was gonna be a tough game, but instead of studying my opponent closely, I kept continuing the game whilst going back and forth between formations I could choose from. I did take a look at the tactics they were most likely going to use and spent some time deciding my own tactics, but I definately could have done more. In my defence, it was really tough deciding what to do: would our great form of late and the home advantage be enough to justify a more attacking approach along the lines of what we had been doing before? Or should we acknowledge their superior quality and adopt a slightly more conservative strategy? If so, how conservative exactly? I went for a 4-5-1 Counter strategy. The game was quite evenly matched until some poor defending on a low cross in the 36th minute saw us 0-1 down. As I said, we weren't getting overrun by City, but we didn't seem to be able to score and I attributed that lack of a goal to the 1-striker tactics and the counter-attacking strategy. So around the 60th minute we changed shape to our previously successful Attacking 4-3-1-2.
    That led to a few opportunities and if I recall correctly City didn't get any chances for the rest of the game. Unfortunately, we didn't score, so the final result was a 0-1 loss. Not really that bad, considering it was Manchester City and they were also doing well. But I was a bit disheartened since I somehow felt like I made the wrong decision on tactics, looking at our display after the shape change.
    And then came Arsenal, away from home. In retrospect, I was a fool to think I could afford to adopt the Attacking 4-3-1-2 strategy in this game, but Arsenal were only 11th in the league and I was hoping to surprise them with high pressure and a forward mentality. It's not unheard of that this does work, the shock in the opposing team reinforcing itself if you get a goal. But it's probably too much of a risk away from home, especially coming out of a (narrow) defeat. I realized this less than a minute into the game: Cazorla scored the very first chance for Arsenal, before the end of the first minute. My own damn fault, although Cazorla outjumping Baines was unexpected and unacceptable. Did I change my tactics immediately? No, I was sure that wasn't going to do us any good either. And it probably wasn't going to do us any good, but I should have done SOMETHING. Instead, I thought: well, we were already on an attacking mentality and now we have a good reason to be. Alas, things only got worse. We were unable to create chances (5 shots in total versus 19 for Arsenal) and we conceded 3 more goals. I did change the tactics and the formation at half-time and we only conceded one of the 4 Arsenal goals in the second half, but I'm sure that had more to do with Arsenal settling for what they had than with my changes. Anyway, 4-0 defeat, for which I blame mostly me (and Baines a bit, if he hadn't lost that aerial duel to Cazorla, MAYBE (!) we could have stunned them and we wouldn't have been so demoralized from the start). Possession and all other stats were good, only the balance of chances created and conceded was very poor. That's a tell-tale sign of adopting the wrong strategy to my eyes. So I do take responsibility there.

    Unfortunately, I was a bit down after that. Two defeats in a row, one being a 4-0 domination, that needed rectification. But instead of tediously studying my next opponent, I thought: Norwich at home, that game is just what we need, an easy win. I was too eager to get that win after the disappointment of the past two games, that I didn't put the necessary time into my tactical plan. We would win that game and all would be well again. I stuck with the Attacking 4-3-1-2 but we were poor. I reckon this is what Jake was saying about the opposition coming up with ways to counter your tactics. Norwich weren't great either, but they did keep us from scoring and we only got a goalless draw from that game. Not good enough.
    Then came Chelsea, away, a game we should have lost by far more than 1-2 and Reading, away, a game where we might have adopted the wrong strategy but would probably have deserved a point (0-2, a quickfire double from Le Fondre). Finally, we just got a deserved but narrow 1-0 home win over Sunderland. I changed things up and went for the third formation we were training, a 4-3-3 with two center mids, an attacking mid, two high wingers and a sole striker. We dominated Sunderland in every aspect of the game and should have scored more goals. So it was a success, but I'm thinking it was mainly because the opposition were not expecting that particular formation and were unable to adjust. Because I didn't really have that much of a well-reasoned argument for it, except that it would be a surprise to the opposition and it allowed me to try and see if a few players performed better in a different position.

    Anyway, the moral of this (long) story (I do apologize) is that you have to be wary of complacency and disappointment in your own thinking. You can get drawn into a negative spiral before you know it, just because you stop putting enough time in tactics.
    Last edited by WouterVW; 06/11/2012 at 08:24 PM.
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  38. im having good results with my brendon rogers tactic ive tryed uploading but hasn't gone on 2 DC'S, 2 WB'S, 1 DM, 2 MC, 2 IF, 1 FW.

  39. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by J Jermyn View Post
    Chelsea play a 4-2-3-1 with Oscar/Mata and Hazard playing pretty wide. I consider them wingers or inside forwards, the point is they play wide and Uniteds diamond would of suffered big time.

    They position wide, they actually play incredibly narrow, its how Shaktar tore them apart down the flanks.
    Tyton likes this.

  40. What is a good way to analyze what your tactic is missing and what your opponent is going to do? What are the basic ways to work on countering your opponents strength and playing towards his weaknesses?

  41. I like that you can't pick one tactic and use it to win everything easily. The issue or rather issues i'm having are more to do with players doing stupid stuff over and over. Just a few complaints from mine in recent games;

    - Defenders not tackling and running beside someone for the length of the pitch despite being faster, the attacker giving them plenty of opportunity to take the ball away and the defender pretty much being on the wrong side so he's ust sheperding him towards goal.

    - Keeper mistakes. Players hitting a cross from the wing, the bal floating up and over the keeper. Thats not realistic, thats just annoying.

    - Defender mistakes happening every game. I expect mistakes to happen, i don't expect my defenders and keeper to be passing across goal straight to the opposition so they can tap it in.

    - I hate players not running to the ball, they miander slowly towards it while the oppostion are sprinting or even more annoying, they start to run for it, stop and stand still while the atacker behind gets it, then they start running again.Again, i get that this happens occasionally in games, it doesn't happen all the time though irl.

    - The amount of times i hit the post is ridiculous. Even more ridiculous is when it happened off a free kick and not only does it smash into the crossbar but the keeper has eyes in the back of his head and catches the rebound as it comes back over his shoulder before it comes to the players in front of him. The cat like reflexes are not realistic.

    - The ball alternates between bouncing and floating like a beach ball and a cricket ball. Its painful to see someone throw the ball in and have it rocket its way into the box when the throw was at the halfway line.


    While i like the tactical nuances about the game, you can never win 2 games in a row using the same formation. No one changes it up every single game. Thats an unrealistic twist on the whole thing. Speaking of unrealistic twist, Stoke plays like Barca and is sitting in 4th. What a gee up.
    irbis likes this.

  42. My tactics are there for the most part, it's just that my defenders don't seem to do anything, they'll suddenly stop when a ball is coming their way, only for the striker to knock it past them and run for a 1 on 1. Is there a solution?
    irbis likes this.

  43. Quote Originally Posted by lfc4 View Post
    My tactics are there for the most part, it's just that my defenders don't seem to do anything, they'll suddenly stop when a ball is coming their way, only for the striker to knock it past them and run for a 1 on 1. Is there a solution?
    Yes, wait for the next patch. It seems that those issues are being solved.

  44. If you can't win, just play the match in 2D. It's virtually bug free. I found my players to perform much closer to my instructions when I switch to 2D and the team overall is doing much better.

  45. Quote Originally Posted by ZeoX View Post
    If you can't win, just play the match in 2D. It's virtually bug free. I found my players to perform much closer to my instructions when I switch to 2D and the team overall is doing much better.

    Its the same Match Engine but for those getting frustrated with some of the animation issues, its less frustrating using the 2D mode. This might actually also have the effect that one does not missinterpret what is happening on the pitch, leading to less "incorrect" ingame tweaks/shouts.

    So, in a sense, yes its easier to play with the 2D
    Kris and GodCubed like this.

  46. This has needed to be said for a while now. Great post.

    It's so much more satisfying figuring out the new engine and getting a victory. The small changes make a great difference. I had an FA Cup replay recently (the first fixture ending 0-0) against a weaker team and it was about the 60th minute and I just couldn't figure out why I wasn't able to score. My Ass Man was banging on about getting overrun inmidfield but I ignored it for the first 150 minutes of the tie, expecting my better players to eventually come out on top. I thought 'sod it, i'll pack the midfield' and dropped a striker back into an AMC. Within minutes i'd scored and went on to win 3-0.

    It's the micro-management like this that previous games missed.

    Also, as a result of the new engine, the press called me a 'tinkerer' for the first time ever. Ususally just stick with one tactic for 20 years

  47. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Originally Posted by PaulC
    I'd like to say something about the difference between the ME in 12 and 13.

    Yesterday we set up an FM2012 match on a monitor directly next to an FM2013 one. We watched 2 matches side by side in full with the same camera view. The differences were startling.

    - FM2012's ball physics are way way behind the new model. The ball moves too fast in the air and then dies a death as soon as it starts to roll. It also bounces way too high and straight up. The FM2013 model looks more like a real football in our opinion. It needs a few tweaks here and there but overall we are happy with its direction.

    - FM2012's player physics used legacy code from the original 2D implementation of CM4. As such they had acceleration but no concept of turning circle or deceleration. This allowed them to make unrealistic turns that apart from making them unrealistically good at reacting to the ball, confused the hell out of the animation code.

    - The animation code, while certainly nowhere near where we want it to be, is far smoother in FM2013. The instances of player ice skating etc are far more prevalent in FM2012. It still happens occasionally in FM2013 but nowhere near as much.

    - The pace of the game in FM2012 just looks too fast in comparison to FM2013. We think the latter reflects modern football better.



    Following on from that I think there are various factors contributing to some of the complaints about this year's ME:

    - Definitely in beta, and yes, to a point in release the ME is rougher around the edges. We know defender reactions and keeper handling in particular are still needing improvements and we are committed to that as ever as well as the other genuine issues raised in this thread and the bugs forum.

    - Many users are completely used to the 12 engine and the 13 is such a departure in terms of the pace of the play and the dynamics that its a culture shock. Its also had huge effects on tactics that may have worked before and work differently now.

    - FM2013 is harder for some users, partly due to improved use of the tactics creator and team selection by AI teams. My experience of FML taught me that the more people fail to live up to their own expectations the more the ME is blamed. I know some dont want to hear this, but its true.

    - Some users with lower end graphics cards are missing shadows on players which has the effect of "detaching" the players from the field of play. We feel this undermines the whole thing and exacerbates the negatives.

    - Users playing 2D classic have bugs with ball rotation and ball collision depiction that are problematic and we intend to address these.

    Cheers,
    Paul
    Jake, iNickStuff, ajt09 and 4 others like this.

  48. Hard work is paying off for me. Won majority of pre-season (restarted Blackburn save with proper instructions for every single player and totally revamped my tactics to a narrow 4-3-1-2 on a narrow pitch), and won 2 games on the bounce and currently sitting 4th in Championship. Though as I'm typing playing Hull and after 7 minutes it's 2-1 already in my favour. I suspect this could be stressful.

  49. I resent the implication that United won that match because of their tactics and not because of some terrible officiating.

  50. Rename thread 'what to do if you just can't win' to 'aka brown nosing SI'

    Its called Football Manager 2013. Why not release it in 2013 when the match engine is actually playable. Every year, same gig. Update update and more updates. I love the franchise but its the last time I buy it before Feb/Mar the year after release. To be fair FMC is a godsend but I cant watch a match cause of the ME. I select 'Instant Result' and win 4-0. I play and watch the match I draw 3-3. I'm oooout

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