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Can somebody explain this to me please....
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  1. Can somebody explain this to me please....

    Hi all first i will apologise for my english as it is not the best but i try

    I have been playing a save with Nottingham Forest and whilst trying to perfect my tactic i have played a few games more than once to try slightly different defence setups to help keep clean sheets.

    So far in my season it is going well i have played 20 won 16 drew 3 and lost 1 scoring 60 but conceding 26 goals with only 4 clean sheets.

    While i was trying to perfect my defense as i love clean sheets with little tweaks i became frustrated and gave up. I then decided i would play my next game agaisnt Barnsley 5 times with the same players teamtalk and fluid tactic i had used all season to see the results.

    I lost 5-3 won 3-0 ,3-2, 5-1, 2-1 All the games had different scorers and different amount of chances created roughly the same amount of possesion but very mixed results

    I was wondering if someone could explain why that is to me the game seems to be a alot riding on luck at times at the moment.

    Thanks

  2. I have tried the same thing, with the same variation in results. However, I believe this is not due to simple luck, but rather the players' performance, along with the opposition players' performance. Of course, one could call this luck, but I don't really see the lack of realism in this.

    If Manchester United and Arsenal were to play the 8-2 game over again, with the same players and the same tactics, chances are Arsenal wouldn't lose 8-2 again. Maybe they'd even win, or at least lose by a smaller margin. It's just the way things work, sometimes a couple of players will make a great performance, influenting the other players around them. Other times the same couple of players will have an awful day, with the opposite result.

    It can also be the result of, for example, a small mistake by one player who loses the ball in a dangerous position, where the opposition counters and scores. Now you're suddenly 1-0 down, which could affect players with low determination. The way I see it, matches played by the same teams with the same players and the same tactics, can have numerous different outcomes. To simplify it, one can call it luck. But in all fairness, it can be due to alot of different reasons.

    Your english is fine btw.

  3. I understand what you are saying about real life comparison and how every game is different but in the game I want to understand how to get the best out of my team. The game lets me to get me team ready for a game by press confrence, talking to players about form, tactics, tram talks for example and if all are the same I would have thought the first half of a game would be similar until half time when you have a team talk.

    To me there seems to be an element of luck to the game which makes it so frustrating as you feel helpless at times to change a result and the satisfaction of winning isn't there as it was in other versions for me

  4. The reason why you are not getting the same result is due to the way it has been programmed it is all about variables. Each time you play the same game, same tactics, team talks etc, the outcome will be different as the variables will not be the same. Hence the new scorers, cards and performances etc.

    A good example would be dice rolls. Rolling it 6 times, then another 6 times the outcome of the dice rolls is highly unlikely to be same again
    GOD23 likes this.

  5. becuase the game is shit, regardless of some boffins talking about variables the truth is probability decrees that the results should be fairly similiar, if as some suggest its like a dice roll (lol) then why bother doing anything in the game? Why bother with tactics or teamtalks or players even? The dice roll thing is the most stupid example ever. Its faceplam stupid.
    barakus likes this.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by prescottrh View Post
    becuase the game is shit, regardless of some boffins talking about variables the truth is probability decrees that the results should be fairly similiar, if as some suggest its like a dice roll (lol) then why bother doing anything in the game? Why bother with tactics or teamtalks or players even? The dice roll thing is the most stupid example ever. Its faceplam stupid.
    If 22 players play the exact same way every time you play a match, just because the tactics and the opposition are the same - well, THAT would be a shitty game.
    jordyoffy and TJD07 like this.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by prescottrh View Post
    becuase the game is shit, regardless of some boffins talking about variables the truth is probability decrees that the results should be fairly similiar, if as some suggest its like a dice roll (lol) then why bother doing anything in the game? Why bother with tactics or teamtalks or players even? The dice roll thing is the most stupid example ever. Its faceplam stupid.
    If the game had no random element to it then what would be the point in playing? You'd simply find a tactic that put your team at an advantage and win, game after game after game without ever losing or coming close to doing so. That would be a facepalm stupid game.
    The results shouldn't be fairly similar because if they were then the game is just predictable, once it's predictable you can stack the odds in your favor making it completely pointless to play.

    The best you can do is put your team in a strong enough position so that when the dice is rolled you win more times than you don't.
    Last edited by TJD07; 05/12/2012 at 01:47 PM.
    inspLL likes this.

  8. I have been playing a save with Nottingham Forest and whilst trying to perfect my tactic i have played a few games more than once to try slightly different defence setups to help keep clean sheets.
    The thing about "perfecting tactic" is, that you have to deal with it during each game. You have to react to whats happening on the pitch, if you see explosive winger having party time on your right flank, it might be good idea to instruct your full back to play more defensively, maybe swap your more defensive midfielder toward that side, or maybe you have some rock solid defender on the bench, that could help you deal with him.
    If you try to play the same match again, he might not be in as good form, or might take an early knock that will make him struggle in this game, and so he won't be a threat. There are a lot of possibilities, sometimes you might do perfectly well, till some winger make a total fluke goal, and after that your team will start to struggle, be it because of your time feeling down, or because of opposition playing in more defensive shape while winning.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by warnehead View Post
    The reason why you are not getting the same result is due to the way it has been programmed it is all about variables. Each time you play the same game, same tactics, team talks etc, the outcome will be different as the variables will not be the same. Hence the new scorers, cards and performances etc.

    A good example would be dice rolls. Rolling it 6 times, then another 6 times the outcome of the dice rolls is highly unlikely to be same again

    Not just unlikely it is actually impossible. The geometric probability density function equals zero for any single outcome in a Bernoulli trial... Hence why when you have a game that is programmed utilizing some sort of probability model (possibly the T-distribution although easily could be the normal model) the results of any two games can't be exactly the same. It isn't just that there are variables, it is that the variables change based on probability (which is designed to keep 10-0 games from happening...)

    Anyways, because the game is unpredictable, it is also fun, but also frustrating.

  10. For me this element of luck and chance has taken the fun and feeling of achievement out of the game as i dont feel like i am in full control over my success or failures. I feel you can point your team in the right direction but cant get it to do exactly as u want each time you play a game as it is completely different. I was trying to improve my defense but with the same tactic team talk ect against the same opposition can bring different results (one game i lost 5-3 another i won 3-0) how do u know what is working and what isnt if u made changes. If i played the game where i won 3-0 i would have come on here uploaded the tactic and thought i cracked it but in reality the same tactic can also conceded 5 in a game where is the sense in that?
    Also if u do an individual team talk to a player about his form the next game he can either have a shocker and need to be subbed or bag a hat trick in the first half it is complete luck of the draw. If u played the game where he had the shocker first u would not use that talk on that player again as u would of thought it didnt work when really u were just unlucky as i does work.
    I can honestly not think of another game i have played where u have to be lucky to be successful can anyone think of any other computer games that your success or failures rely partly on luck and chance?

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