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  • 1 Post By rookiemanager2
  • 2 Post By rookiemanager2

How to keep the football-LOCAL

  1. How to keep the football-LOCAL

    My experiment with setting league boundaries proved to be successful on my created database-to see how many of the teams shifted out of their local league. I set league boundaries from english tier 6 to tier 9-i holidayed a whole season.

    -Very happy, very minimal amount of teams altered their local league from blue square north/south downwards! Lets take for example the united counties league in tier 9;

    -3 teams; Quorn and Spalding got promoted into the english northern south league from the united counties. Maybe or maybe not their favorerd league but it sounds they were put either in the right league or nearly the right league. As did Holbeach but maybe that is not as convincing for Holbeach, though not the worst league to be placed. Maybe a score of 2.5/3 there.

    -18 out of 18 teams (excluding the 3 promoted teams of course) remained in the league for the second consecutive year.

    -2 teams playing at tier 9 for the second consecutive year, moved into the United Counties league. Badshot Lea came from the Combined counties league; Rocester from the Kent league. Badshot Lea could, like Holbeach wasnt the best local league for season 2, but not the worst scenario-1/2 a point. Rocester, only a 1/4 of a point as not local at all but then again deserves a tiny bit of a well done due to at least playing not too far out. Just 3/4 out of 2.

    -Woodford United had been relegated from the Southern D1. Very good 1/1.

    -22.5/24=93.75% effective.

    -Other leagues look as good

    -This proves that i have set my boundaries about right, i am very happy and can continue in my work knowing the teams are in the right leagues or very near to the right league. I am very happy, although baffled as to why all the leagues remained the same size throughout tiers 6-9.

    -I will continue with my database and if anyone needs help to do the local leagues, i can give you the boundary settings that i used per league, or you can download my database when i have finished. I hope some people will find this useful.
    corach1992 likes this.

  2. As promised, here are the boundary settings that i am using in my database that has worked, to keep the football 'local';

    What i did not do; manually alter the leagues promotion and relegation slots, i only altered the 'parent' promotion/relegation slots. I believe that by altering the slots manually, you could affect the 'local' factor by being biased in other leagues. I had to fit the promotion/relegation slots by the 'parent' league. I am doing this for ALL tiers.
    Now this meant i had 7 relegations per league from tier 8 and 3 up from tier 9 (42 each in total), which had set the balance right between the right number of promotions/relegations per tier. This does sound like a lot of relegations, so the only way around this was for me to add a league to tier 9. This way a more modest 5 teams go down (tier 8) and 2 up (tier 9). Something i was satisfied with.

    Also i did not set relegations/promotions to specific leagues, as i thought that i could upset having the 'local' system.

    What i did; alter the league range from 10-24 teams. This although not proven on 1 season of holidaying, should have put all the Kent teams for example in the Kent league etc. My results did show that no leagues on tiers 6-9 had altered in size.
    I am baffled as to why, but my experiment did prove to be successful, maybe that season, although minimal teams did move, the game decided that the teams that did move out of their '1st chosen' league, had not upset the 'local' factor as it had placed the teams that had moved into their '2nd or 3rd' chosen league?
    I still believe that setting a league range of 10-24 teams will impact on later seasons, but this has not yet been proven yet.

    My philosophy; tier 6 has 22 teams in 2 leagues, so i believe that the 'local' factor should be less convincing at the top end of being 'local' as the leagues will be less flexible. One league could have 24 teams and the other could have 20 teams, if too many northern teams got promoted into the league of 24 (for example) then, some northern teams could play in the south. But at least giving the flexibility of the 'minimum' and 'maximum' teams in each league, offers a more likely chance of 'keeping it local'. Although this has not been proven yet, i do believe there is truth to this.
    Tier 7 is a little bit more flexible and so forth. I do believe that as more leagues are present, there should be more chance of flexibility. Although my results did show that all leagues from tiers 6-9 had the same 'local effect' on the second season.

    The boundaries actually set also gives the game another enigmatic calculation for the game. You could have set the boundary for the blue square north (for example) at Southampton, then you would wonder why Winchester will be bussing it up north to Halifax to play against some Northern outfit, once every 10 days on every season and incurring heavy travelling costs.

    The following is not the 'right and only' answer (there are many many right answers i believe), but the following boundaries did help keep my football local as the above experiment had shown (northern boundary 1st; southern 2nd; east 3rd and west 4th-as boundaries order in the editor);

    Tier 6;

    Blue square north;

    N/a (Scotland); Oxford; n/a (no regional division going to be next to it/water); n/a

    Blue square south;

    Oxford; n/a; n/a; n/a

    Tier 7;

    Northern;

    N/a; Lowestoft; n/a; n/a

    Isthmian;

    Lowestoft; n/a; n/a; Bognor Regis

    Southern;

    Lowestoft; n/a; Bognor Regis; n/a

    Tier 8;

    NN;

    N/a; Warrington; n/a; n/a

    NS;

    Warrington; Halesowen; n/a; n/a

    IN;

    Wroxham; Chatham; n/a; Potters Bar

    IS;

    Chatham; n/a; n/a; Potter Bar

    SC;

    Halesowen; Godalming; Potters bar; n/a

    SSW;

    Godalming; n/a; Potters Bar; n/a

    Tier 9;

    CC; Sudbury (London); Guernsey; Horley; Farnham

    EC; Nottingham; Clacton-on-sea; n/a; Godmanchester

    ES;
    Clacton-on-sea; London; n/a; Walthamstow

    H; Ardley; Reading; Gloucester; n/a

    K; London; Tunbridge Wells; n/a; London

    MA; Nottingham; Ardley; Rocester; n/a

    NCE; Pickering; Long Eaton; n/a; Brighouse

    N; N/a; Pickering; n/a; n/a

    NWC; Pickering; Nottingham; Brighouse; n/a

    SSM; Biggleswade; Sudbury (London); Walthamstowe; Gloucester

    SC; Redhill; n/a; n/a; Selsey

    UC; Long Eaton; Biggleswade; Godmanchester; Rocester

    WSX; Reading; n/a; Hayling Island; Poole

    WSN; Reading; n/a; Poole; n/a


    Conclusion;

    I must stress that the boundaries that i use are not the 'only right' answer. I also overlapped only a couple of boundaries. My experiment proved to beover 93% successful. That is very very very good for 'local football', but i am open to tweaking the boundaries for my own database.
    Last edited by rookiemanager2; 10/01/2013 at 03:26 AM.
    Death Ball and Benniewijs like this.

  3. I have set my league boundaries for my second testing, to test even lower and more 'localised' league boundaries, to get the desired 'local football' for my sunday league database that i am working on.

    Many more leagues will be tested and concluded (after holidaying 1 season). The above boundary settings (see previous post) were for a 'basic-tier 9 set-up' that proved successful. The second test will see many more leagues experimented on.

    I have tweaked the boundaries slightly for the 2nd testing for tier 9 onwards. Yet to experiment-i hope to do this later on in the day. I will let you know the results. This 2nd test will be alot harder to get correct due to the additional leagues, but if correct, will really be something with regards to 'keeping it local'.

  4. 2ND TESTING (TIER 9 AND LOWER);

    Tiers 6-8 look very good!

    Tier 9-London League;

    League boundary is big and certainly overlaps other counties ranging from 'Broxbourne' (north) to 'Chessington' (south) and 'Uxbridge' (west) to 'Upminster' (east). No other league region overlaps to this intensity other then then the top 2 'London' leagues ;

    Amersham Town
    moved here from Spartan South Mids league=0.75 (Not the best local league, but still close enough);
    Basford United moved from East Midlands Counties=0.25 (Not good locally, but not the worst outcome);
    Cribbs Friends Life moved from the Western league=0.25 (a bad league to be moved to, not at all local)
    Gedlings Miners Welfare from East Midlands Counties=0.25
    Hayling United
    from Wessex=0.5 (Ok, but not brilliant)
    Rayners Lane from Hellenic 1st East league=1 (a very good move, due to the London boundaries overlap, can play in more then 1 local league).
    Romsey Town from Wessex=0.5
    St Blazey
    from the South West Penisula league=0 (not at all local, about half of the local leagues would of been better for them!)
    Verwood from Wessex=0.5 (what is happening????)

    9 teams have moved here from other regions due to promotion/relegation/or a 'league region swap'. 11 teams have stayed within this region, whether playing for the 'London Premier', or the 'London 1st'. Although i have not tallied the scores yet, i am not looking forward to the results. Because of this, i may look at a couple of the other leagues in tier 9. The 'London Premier' will have the same number of teams next season, for some strange reason.

    The dissapointment in 'keeping it local' for this league, could be because of the following reasons;

    The league boundaries need tweaking;
    There are not enough 'London' regional clubs to compete at this level (i would prefer it if this was the case)

    London Premier 'localness' score=15/20=75%

    Better then what i thought it would be, but not as high as i would have liked. I do not know how i am going to 'better' this score, but given that the league was 'added' to potentially 'benefit' the overall 'local factor', it is not a bad score. I will be looking at the 'Wessex Premier' next, as 3/20 clubs came from that league, into this league.

    Very good effort to get 75%, remaining 'local-ish', but still comes a bit short. Would i really have to spend 6-10 hours on holidaying another season to see any improvements, over a longer period?






  5. Tier 9 'Wessex Premier'

    Brading, GKN & Ventnor
    from Isle Of Wight Premier (tier 10)=3/3 (Any promoted Isle Of Wight teams, would deffo play in this league.
    Fleet Town relegated from southern division 1 central=1/1 (very good also)
    Frimley from Combined Counties=0.75 (very good-this all looking local so far)
    Newbury from Hellenic=0.75
    St Ives Town from United Counties=0.25
    Wimborne Town & Winchester
    relegated from divion 1 south west=2/2

    12 Other teams stay in the Wessex region, whereas 20/21 teams that are playing in this league in the new season, are very much local. Very Pleased, maybe the 'London Premier' score was only 'pretty good' due to there not being enough 'London' teams-i will check the 'kent Premier' next to furthur this conclusion, as the 2 league region do overlap to some capacity.

    Local score=19.75/21=94.04%.

    Very happy-this is more like like it!
    Last edited by rookiemanager2; 10/01/2013 at 08:34 PM.

  6. Tier 9 'Kent Premier'

    AFC Portchester & Hamworthy from Wessex=1/2
    Chadderton
    from North West Counties=0/1
    Croydon Athletic & Farleigh
    from Combined counties=2/2
    Herne Bay
    relegated from Isthmian 1st div south=1/1

    11 teams stay within the Kent region, only Chadderton being the team that is out of place.

    15/17=88.23%

    Very good score; concluding tier 10 next.

  7. Tier 10-Channel Islands Premier

    Buckland Athletic were relegated from the 'Western premier'. Relegation to this league makes sense as Channel Islands are near this division=1/1.
    Chard & Elmore
    gets transfered from 'Western 1' (tier 10)=2/2.

    Guernsey Amateurs & St Saviour
    both earn promotion from the second Channel Islands division.

    14/14=100%
    .

    A very 'local' score here combined with some 'island hopping' to make it interesting. Very happy with the localness here.

    Next up is the 'London 1' league. Lets see how that compares to 'London Premier' on the localness score.
    Last edited by rookiemanager2; 10/01/2013 at 09:04 PM.

  8. Tier 10-London 1

    'London APSA' & 'Haringey and Waltham Development' relegated from the Essex Senior=2/2
    Black Country Rangers from West Midlands=0.25
    Black Meteors
    from 'Hackney & Leyton Sunday Premier League' (tier 11)=1/1
    Oxhey Jets & Sun Postal Sports
    from Spartan league=2/2
    Winslow
    from Spartan league (aswell)=0.75 (just out of London range)
    Storrington from Sussex div 2=0.5
    Washington
    from up north=0/1

    11/20 teams stayed in the 'London' region.

    Localness score is 17.5/20=87.5%

    Very high score. Maybe there are more London teams at this level then in tier 9 (on the current save)? No need for me to be too concerned about the London Premier then .

    Next up.....The East Midlands league sounds like a good choice as the 'Midland Alliance (tier 9)' had been broken-up into more regional leagues in tier 10 and The 'East Midland' was one of those leagues.

  9. Tier 10-East Midlands

    Bicester & Easington from Hellenic East 1=2/2
    Kidlington
    also from Hellenic East=0.5
    Old Woodstock from Hellenic West=0.5
    Kenneck from Northern div 2=0
    Thornaby also from Northern div 2=0.25
    Long Eaton United
    from North East Counties=1/1
    Rossington
    also from North East Counties=0.75

    14/22 teams stay in the region.

    19/22=86.36%

    Very good, though not the best. Top effort presuming how hard to set boundaries actually are esp at tier 10 and taking into consideration that you cannot mimic tier 9 boundary settings for this league for example (due to the splitting of the 'Midland Alliance').

    There is no need to test tier 11 down as i had the relegations/promotions set for specific leagues between tiers 10/11. Tier 11 has only 3 leagues ('Hackney & Leyton Sunday Premier', 'Isle Of Wight div 2' & 'Channel Islands div 2'). Tiers 12-15 has only the 'Hackney Leyton Sunday div 1' of which goes till div 4.

    RANGE=75%-100%
    AVERAGE=
    88.52%

    I have the satisfaction that the system has remained 'local' for tiers 8 and 9. I was hoping to hit 90% for superior localised football, but i am still very happy to have very good local football.
    But i do know that tiers 6,7 and 8 was nearly all spot on and therefore if you take tiers 6-10 in account then the database as a whole is superior at 'keeping it local'.

    Tweaking the regional boundaries is an option, so i will consider any inputs.

    I am very very happy with the experiment #2 and can now concerntrate on the cups for my database.

    My database has the following impact if anyone is interested;

    -A consistant 'local football feeling' for consecutive seasons;
    -A 'sunday league' feel from tiers 11-15;
    -All irl cups including the 'Hackney & Leyton Sunday League cups' to be added (need to do this);
    -Fairly accurate kits for nearly ALL teams (only did 'shirts' tbh);
    -All clubs have year 'founded';
    -All clubs have a city/latitude/longitude to support 'keeping it local';
    -All added teams (ie not in the database under 'continental base region') set to 'amateur' to furthur promote financial well-being and the 'sunday feeling'.
    -NO 'reserve' teams;
    -A very real but alternative balance league structure to support 'keeping it local' and 'sunday league';
    -Pitch sharing for sunday league teams to create the 'just a kick about effect' (worn out pitches/long ball);
    -'Hackney Downs' boasting 5 pitches;
    -Introduction to the 'London' (fictional), 'Isle Of Wight (real)' and 'Channel Islands (combination of real/fictional)' leagues to match the best interests of 'balancing promotions/relegations' by promoting the 'local factor' AND my personal spin on lower league football.
    -Combining of the Channel Islands into 2 tier leagues (7 teams per island, per league) and introducing them into mainstream English football. Also mainstreaming of the Isle Of Wight and London leagues. Supplementing this approach with keeping these teams 'local';
    -A 'sunday league' structure to match irl-introducing the irl 'Hackney & Leyton Sunday Leagues/cups', with fairly accurate shirts (struggled with year formed tbh so put as 2013), real league and real teams.
    -15 tiers

    Check out My English llm editor-level 12 for more info on my database.









    Last edited by rookiemanager2; 10/01/2013 at 11:28 PM.

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