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Does PPM development affect CA?
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  1. Does PPM development affect CA?

    Hey Guys,
    Does developing PPMs increase a players CA? So would a player reach his peak faster and thus “lose“ attributes he couldve still gained if he hadnt reached his peak so early due to PPMs?
    Can PPMs be trained after a player has reached his absolute full potential?
    If they dont “steal attribute points“ but cant be trained after reaching peak, idt be better to develop PPms before attributes.
    Hope you get my question.
    Thanks in advance!

  2. I don't believe PPMs take up CA. But they do take up training time. So a young player who spends time learning a PPM is dedicating a bit less time to attribute-training. Its why some leave the PPMs until the player has developed a bit more. But if the player is developing well, I can't say I've ever intentionally held back on a PPM I thought they really needed.
    WJ and FalseZero like this.

  3. Quote Originally Posted by Bigpapa42 View Post
    I don't believe PPMs take up CA. But they do take up training time. So a young player who spends time learning a PPM is dedicating a bit less time to attribute-training. Its why some leave the PPMs until the player has developed a bit more. But if the player is developing well, I can't say I've ever intentionally held back on a PPM I thought they really needed.
    Thanks a lot dude So is it possible to train ppms after development is maxed? And why is it bad when training time is taken up? Cant the player just improve attributes no matter the age, as long as his PA isnt reached yet?
    Last edited by FalseZero; 1 Week Ago at 11:41 AM.

  4. I am nor sure of this, but I believe that youngsters can pick up PPMs from mentors without any affect on other training areas or CA.

    If you have a senior player with the same PPM who mentors 'on the pitch' then the PPM should get transferred - but beware of personality and determination effects.
    FalseZero likes this.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by FalseZero View Post
    Thanks a lot dude So is it possible to train ppms after development is maxed? And why is it bad when training time is taken up? Cant the player just improve attributes no matter the age, as long as his PA isnt reached yet?
    Players can keep improving even as they get older, but the areas of improvement change and the rate slows. A player in their late 20s will rarely improve that much in Physicals, whereas a teenager tends to improve in this area quite rapidly. A later 20s player is more likely to improve in their mental areas, which often continues past 30 as they start to see physical attribute drops.

    Young players develop faster. Its also easier and faster to increase a lower level attribute than a higher one (at least it seems so). So getting a player from 10 Passing to 11 is going to be much easier than going from 17 to 18. Players are never guaranteed to max out their potential. Many never do. There are so many factors involved in player skill development - starting level, potential, facilities, coaching, personality, playing time, injuries - that its not at all uncommon to see players who don't come close to hitting their potential. A pretty promising 17 year old who is dumped in the reserves for 3 or 4 seasons may not improve that much once their skill level means they need a higher level of competition, so if they don't get it, they stagnate and they may end up as a relatively mediocre 20 year old, despite that top end potential. And at that point, reaching their potential is going to become increasing unlikely, because they missed a prime window, so to speak.

    So that's basically why some FMers don't do PPMs directly to younger players. As I mentioned, its not something I've ever worried about. But most promising players I have in my squads are always getting first team action on a regular basis, which definitely helps with development. If I couldn't offer that... maybe I'd worry more.

    As Snorks says, you can use mentoring to transfer PPMs too. If you want to focus on youth development, its almost mandatory to have a few veteran players with good personalities to mentor. If they good PPMs, so much the better.
    WJ and FalseZero like this.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by Bigpapa42 View Post
    Players can keep improving even as they get older, but the areas of improvement change and the rate slows. A player in their late 20s will rarely improve that much in Physicals, whereas a teenager tends to improve in this area quite rapidly. A later 20s player is more likely to improve in their mental areas, which often continues past 30 as they start to see physical attribute drops.

    Young players develop faster. Its also easier and faster to increase a lower level attribute than a higher one (at least it seems so). So getting a player from 10 Passing to 11 is going to be much easier than going from 17 to 18. Players are never guaranteed to max out their potential. Many never do. There are so many factors involved in player skill development - starting level, potential, facilities, coaching, personality, playing time, injuries - that its not at all uncommon to see players who don't come close to hitting their potential. A pretty promising 17 year old who is dumped in the reserves for 3 or 4 seasons may not improve that much once their skill level means they need a higher level of competition, so if they don't get it, they stagnate and they may end up as a relatively mediocre 20 year old, despite that top end potential. And at that point, reaching their potential is going to become increasing unlikely, because they missed a prime window, so to speak.

    So that's basically why some FMers don't do PPMs directly to younger players. As I mentioned, its not something I've ever worried about. But most promising players I have in my squads are always getting first team action on a regular basis, which definitely helps with development. If I couldn't offer that... maybe I'd worry more.

    As Snorks says, you can use mentoring to transfer PPMs too. If you want to focus on youth development, its almost mandatory to have a few veteran players with good personalities to mentor. If they good PPMs, so much the better.
    Thanks! Does performance in games influence player development? Would you rather keep a player in the reserve team with state of the art facility, world class coaching and mentoring or send on loan?

  7. Quote Originally Posted by FalseZero View Post
    Thanks! Does performance in games influence player development? Would you rather keep a player in the reserve team with state of the art facility, world class coaching and mentoring or send on loan?
    Wow, this is a BIG question.

    For me, it depends on the player and how I am wanting to develop him, but I will try and answer in a logical thought-process kind of way, firstly, remember that the attribute values you see on his Overview card are actually measured to two decimal places, so a player with an attribute at 10, can be anywhere between 9.50 and 10.49 so 'rapid' increases may only be a rise of .01

    Second, first team playing time gives a little boost to the attributes used in the position/role/duty he played with - so if you have a promising Poacher, playing him as a DF, while possible, won;t improve him as fast. Important to remember that he will only get a boost if he is on the field long enough to receive a match rating - About 15 minutes. The longer he is on, and the higher the rating the bigger the boost - although still only small and measured in the decimals.

    Mentoring can be valuable as well, mentoring 'on the pitch' helps with PPMs and some attributes (determination/work rate etc) and 'off the pitch helps with determination and personality.

    Now, remember those points when we talk about loans, but, looking at a youngster I would first decide what I want him to be when he reaches the first team, so, what position and role would fit my tactic. I then look at the weaker attributes he has for that role and see which positional training will improve those. Remember to keep an eye on the physicals & mentals as well, these improve quickly when young - so if the player has Poacher set as his best position, training him as a CF might produce a more-rounded Poacher for your first team. Any attributes particularly weak can be trained on individual focus.

    Now, if you want to give him a run in the first team, remember the attributes that will be helped - do you play him as a CF or as a Poacher to fit your tactic? That is entirely up to you and depends on how he is progressing with his in-house training.

    On to the loaning issues, this can be a fantastic way of developing youth if done properly - David Beckham's professional debut was for Preston North End, and he has publicly said how valuable playing for PNE was in his development - so, there a few things to look out for. Most important to remember though is that you lose all control over his training, what attributes are worked on and what role/duty he plays, so loaning a good 'un might not be the best thing, especially if relying on Mentors - they have no influence if the player isn't at the club.

    Check the players report tab and see at what level your backroom team recommend he is ready for - do not ever loan to below or above this level! Below, and he won;t get pushed enough to perform, attributes get little or no boost at all, above this standard and he either won;t get playing time or won't be able to perform and lower match rating means less attribute improvement.

    So, you get some loan offers from clubs at the level he should be playing at, look at their training facilities and coaching quality - is it good enough? Should be better than yours, on a par with yours or one level below. The Youth facilities have little impact as he will be with the first team.

    How is the loanee club performing? Playing at club that is pushing for promotion or competing at least Top 10 or top half is more valuable than playing for one struggling at the bottom of the league.

    What Squad Status are they offering? I never loan a player out at less than First Team status, he just won;t get enough game time at anything less. You can check out the loanee club squad screen to see who he will competing for place with as well. If possible I will push for Key Player status, but happy to settle with First team.

    So loaning is one of the best ways to improve the player as long as he is placed at the right club, is played in the right position and is getting regular games - at least more minutes than you could give him - BUT you do lose all control over the development of the finished player, so make sure you have trained him properly first. If he is not performing at all, or not getting game time, recall him and take back control over his development.

    I should also note that you should ONLY loan to clubs in 'Playable Leagues' - non-playable leagues don't actually run the full fixtures so he will only see the benefits of match time in a playable league where all fixtures are run thoroughly and he gets actual minutes.

    So, to the question ( :-), reserve team fixtures do little to improve the player, 'meaningful fixtures' are what counts, so league games & cup games in the first team, basically the same fixtures that matter to your Key Player/Firsts/Rotation players when they moan about playing time.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by Snorks View Post
    Wow, this is a BIG question.

    For me, it depends on the player and how I am wanting to develop him, but I will try and answer in a logical thought-process kind of way, firstly, remember that the attribute values you see on his Overview card are actually measured to two decimal places, so a player with an attribute at 10, can be anywhere between 9.50 and 10.49 so 'rapid' increases may only be a rise of .01

    Second, first team playing time gives a little boost to the attributes used in the position/role/duty he played with - so if you have a promising Poacher, playing him as a DF, while possible, won;t improve him as fast. Important to remember that he will only get a boost if he is on the field long enough to receive a match rating - About 15 minutes. The longer he is on, and the higher the rating the bigger the boost - although still only small and measured in the decimals.

    Mentoring can be valuable as well, mentoring 'on the pitch' helps with PPMs and some attributes (determination/work rate etc) and 'off the pitch helps with determination and personality.

    Now, remember those points when we talk about loans, but, looking at a youngster I would first decide what I want him to be when he reaches the first team, so, what position and role would fit my tactic. I then look at the weaker attributes he has for that role and see which positional training will improve those. Remember to keep an eye on the physicals & mentals as well, these improve quickly when young - so if the player has Poacher set as his best position, training him as a CF might produce a more-rounded Poacher for your first team. Any attributes particularly weak can be trained on individual focus.

    Now, if you want to give him a run in the first team, remember the attributes that will be helped - do you play him as a CF or as a Poacher to fit your tactic? That is entirely up to you and depends on how he is progressing with his in-house training.

    On to the loaning issues, this can be a fantastic way of developing youth if done properly - David Beckham's professional debut was for Preston North End, and he has publicly said how valuable playing for PNE was in his development - so, there a few things to look out for. Most important to remember though is that you lose all control over his training, what attributes are worked on and what role/duty he plays, so loaning a good 'un might not be the best thing, especially if relying on Mentors - they have no influence if the player isn't at the club.

    Check the players report tab and see at what level your backroom team recommend he is ready for - do not ever loan to below or above this level! Below, and he won;t get pushed enough to perform, attributes get little or no boost at all, above this standard and he either won;t get playing time or won't be able to perform and lower match rating means less attribute improvement.

    So, you get some loan offers from clubs at the level he should be playing at, look at their training facilities and coaching quality - is it good enough? Should be better than yours, on a par with yours or one level below. The Youth facilities have little impact as he will be with the first team.

    How is the loanee club performing? Playing at club that is pushing for promotion or competing at least Top 10 or top half is more valuable than playing for one struggling at the bottom of the league.

    What Squad Status are they offering? I never loan a player out at less than First Team status, he just won;t get enough game time at anything less. You can check out the loanee club squad screen to see who he will competing for place with as well. If possible I will push for Key Player status, but happy to settle with First team.

    So loaning is one of the best ways to improve the player as long as he is placed at the right club, is played in the right position and is getting regular games - at least more minutes than you could give him - BUT you do lose all control over the development of the finished player, so make sure you have trained him properly first. If he is not performing at all, or not getting game time, recall him and take back control over his development.

    I should also note that you should ONLY loan to clubs in 'Playable Leagues' - non-playable leagues don't actually run the full fixtures so he will only see the benefits of match time in a playable league where all fixtures are run thoroughly and he gets actual minutes.

    So, to the question ( :-), reserve team fixtures do little to improve the player, 'meaningful fixtures' are what counts, so league games & cup games in the first team, basically the same fixtures that matter to your Key Player/Firsts/Rotation players when they moan about playing time.
    Wow thanks a lot for your BIG answer! Youre my hero dude! Some players are beginning to get frustrated (morale still good), and are not developing, even though theyve got the personality, potential and the club the facilities and staff. I think its best to loan them out?

  9. Quote Originally Posted by FalseZero View Post
    Wow thanks a lot for your BIG answer! Youre my hero dude! Some players are beginning to get frustrated (morale still good), and are not developing, even though theyve got the personality, potential and the club the facilities and staff. I think its best to loan them out?
    Loaning could be the key to their success, but like I said, be very choosy about where they go. Otherwise it's find a good mentor for motivation/professionalism/determination and give them some game time.
    FalseZero likes this.

  10. Great answer, Snorks.

    Players get frustrated and wanting playing time isn't necessarily about their level of development. Its down to personality and (it seems, anyway), your previous history. If you have previously told players who complain about playing time that they will get played, more players will ask. And it seems like if other youngsters have been given time in the first team, others expect the same treatment (again, not absolutely sure on this, but it seems that way).

    There are a number of reasons why development can stall. It doesn't automatically mean they can't improve more in the reserves. Pay attention to the coaches report on them - that usually makes it clear that they need to play at a more competitive level.

    One other thing to consider - if the player isn't going to be getting first team action because you don't rate them enough as a prospect, another potential upside to loaning them out is "shop windowing" them. Basically, it can increase their value and thereby their potential sale value. Although the "right" clubs to shop window a player may not be the best ones for development....
    Snorks and FalseZero like this.

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