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The Celtic Match Thread

  1. I don't feel sorry for them at all, I guess it's harsh but I find it hard to have compassion with people when i have no idea who they are.


  2. Hoping Celtic win the League cup today, and the title at Ibrox next week.

  3. pistolped7's Avatar pistolped7
    Modern Day Legend
    If we win today and next week at Castle Greyskull, surely this must be one of the earliest title wins ever? I've never heard of anyone winning the title so close to the League Cup final.

  4. BlueHeart26
    Whats that talk of Celtic coming to EPL?

  5. pistolped7's Avatar pistolped7
    Modern Day Legend
    Well, obviously disappointed to lose today, and that the treble's off, but fair play to Killie. They played some really impressive football and fought with passion and desire, whereas we were pish. Stokes is far too selfish, and I'd have put money on Mulgrew scoring that 80th(?) minute free-kick that Stokes smashed off the wall. Thought the penalty was one, but to use that as an excuse would be pathetic. We should've had the game killed off much earlier. Lennon needs to grow up too, just sounded like a bad loser in the post match press conference.

    Also, thoughts go to Liam Kelly's dad, who suffered a heart attack after the game, shame to see what is probably the best day in the guy's career ruined.
    Mike. and maxy67 like this.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by BlueHeart26 View Post
    Whats that talk of Celtic coming to EPL?
    Not EPL but the championship or League 1.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by pistolped7 View Post
    Well, obviously disappointed to lose today, and that the treble's off, but fair play to Killie. They played some really impressive football and fought with passion and desire, whereas we were pish. Stokes is far too selfish, and I'd have put money on Mulgrew scoring that 80th(?) minute free-kick that Stokes smashed off the wall. Thought the penalty was one, but to use that as an excuse would be pathetic. We should've had the game killed off much earlier. Lennon needs to grow up too, just sounded like a bad loser in the post match press conference.

    Also, thoughts go to Liam Kelly's dad, who suffered a heart attack after the game, shame to see what is probably the best day in the guy's career ruined.
    I'm Gutted like everyone I'm sure, couldn't believe how bad we played- hooper and Stokes were dreadful (stokes should have given that free kick to mulgrew). Broonie played with a lot of passion as always, but not enough from a lot of other players showed the same spirit.

    Agreed should have been a penalty.
    pistolped7 likes this.

  8. BlueHeart26
    Quote Originally Posted by maxy67 View Post
    Not EPL but the championship or League 1.
    Is that real? what will happen to SPL?

  9. pistolped7's Avatar pistolped7
    Modern Day Legend
    Quote Originally Posted by maxy67 View Post
    I'm Gutted like everyone I'm sure, couldn't believe how bad we played- hooper and Stokes were dreadful (stokes should have given that free kick to mulgrew). Broonie played with a lot of passion as always, but not enough from a lot of other players showed the same spirit.

    Agreed should have been a penalty.
    Brown was the only one who seemed to give a fuck today, Wanyama was patchy but at least he made an effort. Sammy and Commons injected a bit of pace but too little too late.
    maxy67 likes this.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by BlueHeart26 View Post
    Is that real? what will happen to SPL?
    Well Rangers will still be there, but they will be very weakened by the financial difficulties. So it might mean that other teams can win the league, because at the moment Celtic have far more money than anyone in the league and much better players- so it'll be too easy.

    Its not set in stone, still haven't been accepted by the football league.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by pistolped7 View Post
    Brown was the only one who seemed to give a fuck today, Wanyama was patchy but at least he made an effort. Sammy and Commons injected a bit of pace but too little too late.
    Agreed, I would've taken hooper off at half time and replaced him with sammy. At least he'll run at them and cause some trouble. Hopefully they'll play better on the weekend and we can win the title at Ibrokes.
    pistolped7 likes this.

  12. BlueHeart26
    Quote Originally Posted by maxy67 View Post
    Well Rangers will still be there, but they will be very weakened by the financial difficulties. So it might mean that other teams can win the league, because at the moment Celtic have far more money than anyone in the league and much better players- so it'll be too easy.

    Its not set in stone, still haven't been accepted by the football league.
    It should not happen imo, all that passion between Rangers and Celtic will be gone, and if that is gone, SPL is gone more or less as well. Rangers and Celtic represent the SPL.

  13. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by maxy67 View Post
    Well Rangers will still be there, but they will be very weakened by the financial difficulties. So it might mean that other teams can win the league, because at the moment Celtic have far more money than anyone in the league and much better players- so it'll be too easy.

    Its not set in stone, still haven't been accepted by the football league.
    Its been shot down in flames.

    Football League rules out any chance of Celtic joining League One

    • Football League chairman says no discussions under way
    • 'This would be highly disrespectful' adds Greg Clarke


    The Football League chairman has ruled out any chance of Celtic moving to League One. Photograph: Andrew Milligan/PA

    The Football League chairman, Greg Clarke, has ruled out any chance of Celtic joining League One or the Championship.
    A report yesterday claimed the Old Firm giant was so keen to join English football that they were in talks over a move into League One. However, sources at the club have insisted that is not the case and Clarke himself said it would be "disrespectful" to the Scottish football authorities to enter into any such talks.
    "We have absolutely no intention of having any discussions with any club from another national league regarding membership of our competition," said Clarke. "This would be highly disrespectful to the Scottish FA andScottish Premier League and will not be countenanced by the Football League."



  14. Quote Originally Posted by Mike. View Post
    Its been shot down in flames.

    Football League rules out any chance of Celtic joining League One

    • Football League chairman says no discussions under way
    • 'This would be highly disrespectful' adds Greg Clarke


    The Football League chairman has ruled out any chance of Celtic moving to League One. Photograph: Andrew Milligan/PA

    The Football League chairman, Greg Clarke, has ruled out any chance of Celtic joining League One or the Championship.
    A report yesterday claimed the Old Firm giant was so keen to join English football that they were in talks over a move into League One. However, sources at the club have insisted that is not the case and Clarke himself said it would be "disrespectful" to the Scottish football authorities to enter into any such talks.
    "We have absolutely no intention of having any discussions with any club from another national league regarding membership of our competition," said Clarke. "This would be highly disrespectful to the Scottish FA andScottish Premier League and will not be countenanced by the Football League."


    Cheers for showing me that Mike, was wondering what the latest word on that was. However something will have to change eventually, the SPL will be even more un-competitive with rangers financial trouble and Celtic will have a vast amount of wealth and quality of player compared to everyone else in the coming years. The SFA and its members have mentioned several times recently, moving toward a league without the old firm...

    The reason why I believed the story might have a base in truth was due to rangers financial troubles. After the final in Manchester: I just can't see Rangers ever being let into the English leagues, most clubs won't even play them in a friendly any more... So the only way I could see Celtic getting in was by themselves. I think for the change to be made in England for this to happen, would have to be a few more clubs who have been living beyond their means (HMRC have mentioned several cases similar to rangers in England) and going the same way as Portsmouth. The clubs lower down the leagues may eventually need the huge amount of gate money that Celtic would bring anywhere in the country. I don't see us getting into the EPL, but in the football league this scenario is feasible.

    Heard a few people suggest celtic take the place of a club who goes out of business.

  15. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by maxy67 View Post
    Cheers for showing me that Mike, was wondering what the latest word on that was. However something will have to change eventually, the SPL will be even more un-competitive with rangers financial trouble and Celtic will have a vast amount of wealth and quality of player compared to everyone else in the coming years. The SFA and its members have mentioned several times recently, moving toward a league without the old firm... The reason why I believed the story might have a base in truth was due to rangers financial troubles. After the final in Manchester: I just can't see Rangers ever being let into the English leagues, most clubs won't even play them in a friendly any more... So the only way I could see Celtic getting in was by themselves. I think for the change to be made in England for this to happen, would have to be a few more clubs who have been living beyond their means (HMRC have mentioned several cases similar to rangers in England) and going the same way as Portsmouth. The clubs lower down the leagues may eventually need the huge amount of gate money that Celtic would bring anywhere in the country. I don't see us getting into the EPL, but in the football league this scenario is feasible. Heard a few people suggest celtic take the place of a club who goes out of business.
    I dont see it happening at all. For either club to be honest. None of the 72 clubs would want anything at their expense. But then what about the non league clubs? There is also little benefit to the league clubs. It benefits Celtic far more than it benefits the rest.That's not taking into consideration the potential damage to the SPL. It would kill any future TV deals.
    Last edited by Mike.; 20/03/2012 at 09:26 AM.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Mike. View Post
    There is also little benefit to the league clubs. It benefits Celtic far more than it benefits the rest.
    Money from gates, tv, etc

    What Clarke has said basically means he won't talk about Celtic joining the English league system while we're still a member of the SPL. It's always been unlikely for this move to happen but there seems to be more about it than the usual 'Celtic and Rangers to Premiership' rumour that floats about every now and then.

  17. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by AM67 View Post
    Money from gates, tv, etc

    What Clarke has said basically means he won't talk about Celtic joining the English league system while we're still a member of the SPL. It's always been unlikely for this move to happen but there seems to be more about it than the usual 'Celtic and Rangers to Premiership' rumour that floats about every now and then.
    Again, not that big an impact. Championship already gets considerably more money than SPL, League one isnt really that far behind. Celtic are overstating the impact that they would have. And Clarke is quite clear, and considering it would go to a vote from all 72 clubs, can only see it getting shot down.

  18. To be honest I can't see why they should allowed into the league straight away. Not to mention it'll just open a can of worms. The league should just be left as it is-untouched. I wouldn't welcome it a jot. Not because I'm a Celtic hater-just don't want it to happen.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by ajt09 View Post
    To be honest I can't see why they should allowed into the league straight away. Not to mention it'll just open a can of worms. The league should just be left as it is-untouched. I wouldn't welcome it a jot. Not because I'm a Celtic hater-just don't want it to happen.
    I see where people are coming from when they say this, and no doubt at the moment English football is looking rosy, and celtic is not needed. But the good times in the English game aren't necessarily going to stay the same way as they are now- so opinions on letting celtic in the lower leagues could change in the future. I think for Celtic to have a chance of getting into the League structure then the English game would have to slowly lose its prestige like Italian football has over the years. In the same way that calciopoli brought an abrupt end to italian football arguably being the best league since the 80's: something could happen to England: Eg. if clubs continue to fail in europe or financial difficulties hit several clubs like Portsmouth.

  20. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by maxy67 View Post
    I see where people are coming from when they say this, and no doubt at the moment English football is looking rosy, and celtic is not needed. But the good times in the English game aren't necessarily going to stay the same way as they are now- so opinions on letting celtic in the lower leagues could change in the future. I think for Celtic to have a chance of getting into the League structure then the English game would have to slowly lose its prestige like Italian football has over the years. In the same way that calciopoli brought an abrupt end to italian football arguably being the best league since the 80's: something could happen to England: Eg. if clubs continue to fail in europe or financial difficulties hit several clubs like Portsmouth.
    Even then, its no reason to bring Celtic in. Nor have clubs really failed in Europe. It doesnt solve anything at anyway, it doesnt prevent other clubs from going down

  21. Quote Originally Posted by maxy67 View Post
    I see where people are coming from when they say this, and no doubt at the moment English football is looking rosy, and celtic is not needed. But the good times in the English game aren't necessarily going to stay the same way as they are now- so opinions on letting celtic in the lower leagues could change in the future. I think for Celtic to have a chance of getting into the League structure then the English game would have to slowly lose its prestige like Italian football has over the years. In the same way that calciopoli brought an abrupt end to italian football arguably being the best league since the 80's: something could happen to England: Eg. if clubs continue to fail in europe or financial difficulties hit several clubs like Portsmouth.
    To be honest wouldn't call it rosey-mainly with the level of debt some clubs are in, and the number going into admin. Would say it's looking a bit unstable further down rather than rosey compared to the top flight. Sooner it's sorted the better so there's some stability

  22. Quote Originally Posted by ajt09 View Post
    To be honest wouldn't call it rosey-mainly with the level of debt some clubs are in, and the number going into admin. Would say it's looking a bit unstable further down rather than rosey compared to the top flight. Sooner it's sorted the better so there's some stability
    Agreed. But its rosy enough for people to still think English football is the best in the world at this moment in time.

    I think Sky and the other TV companies which will have the final say on the matter of the OF in England, and the future of European football as a whole. Its the TV companies who give most of the money to the clubs, so I'm sure they hold have a lot of power for change.

  23. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by maxy67 View Post
    Agreed. But its rosy enough for people to still think English football is the best in the world at this moment in time.

    I think Sky and the other TV companies which will have the final say on the matter of the OF in England, and the future of European football as a whole. Its the TV companies who give most of the money to the clubs, so I'm sure they hold have a lot of power for change.
    They don't have the final say. The football league will simply block it.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Mike. View Post
    They don't have the final say. The football league will simply block it.
    If Sky want Celtic in England, then Celtic will play in England.

  25. Irish Scouse's Avatar Irish ScousePremium Member
    Bob Kelso. ❥
    The F.A. have the final say, if Sky pull out then the F.A. lose money, yes. But if Sky pullout, they lose a whole lot of their money. The F.A. and Football League will block it, and rightly so.

  26. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by AM67 View Post
    If Sky want Celtic in England, then Celtic will play in England.

    Umm, no thats not how it works. At all. See Irish's response.

  27. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by Irish Scouse View Post
    The F.A. have the final say, if Sky pull out then the F.A. lose money, yes. But if Sky pullout, they lose a whole lot of their money. The F.A. and Football League will block it, and rightly so.
    Bang on. There is a reason why its being blocked, and thats because the FA, Premier League and Football League gain nothing from it.

    Sky have no bargaining ground because they would lose far more money than any of the organisations.

  28. Quote Originally Posted by Mike. View Post
    Bang on. There is a reason why its being blocked, and thats because the FA, Premier League and Football League gain nothing from it.

    Sky have no bargaining ground because they would lose far more money than any of the organisations.
    Obviously the F.A. have the final say, but I think you're underestimating Sky's influence on English football. The current Sky deal is worth £1.4 billion. Without this money the quality of the league would be a lot, lot lower.

  29. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by AM67 View Post
    Obviously the F.A. have the final say, but I think you're underestimating Sky's influence on English football. The current Sky deal is worth £1.4 billion. Without this money the quality of the league would be a lot, lot lower.
    Its also worth far more to Sky. That's the point you're missing. Not to mention Sky have zero ability to interfere with how the leagues are run. And thats even assuming that Sky want them, which there is no real word on.

    Sky: we want Celtic

    PL: No

    Sky: we'll give you less money

    PL: we'll do a deal with ESPN

    Sky: Oh, maybe we dont want Celtic.


    Sky could actually lose their near monopoly by trying to play where they have no control. I think you overstate what they are capable of. The premier league signed the deals, because it benefits them, not because it benefits sky, they moment it stops going their way, they go somewhere else, why do you think sky showed less games (some going to espn), but paid out more money? They would lose far more money trying to get Celtic in, than they what they would gain if Celtic or Rangers were in. From a business perspective its a non starter. From a league perspective, the Prem once unoffically voted and totally shut it down by 18-2. The football league wont even countenance the idea.

    The only people pushing it are Celtic, no one else wants it or cares.

  30. Quote Originally Posted by Mike. View Post
    Its also worth far more to Sky. That's the point you're missing. Not to mention Sky have zero ability to interfere with how the leagues are run. And thats even assuming that Sky want them, which there is no real word on.

    Sky: we want Celtic

    PL: No

    Sky: we'll give you less money

    PL: we'll do a deal with ESPN

    Sky: Oh, maybe we dont want Celtic.


    Sky could actually lose their near monopoly by trying to play where they have no control. I think you overstate what they are capable of. The premier league signed the deals, because it benefits them, not because it benefits sky, they moment it stops going their way, they go somewhere else, why do you think sky showed less games (some going to espn), but paid out more money? They would lose far more money trying to get Celtic in, than they what they would gain if Celtic or Rangers were in. From a business perspective its a non starter. From a league perspective, the Prem once unoffically voted and totally shut it down by 18-2. The football league wont even countenance the idea.

    The only people pushing it are Celtic, no one else wants it or cares.
    Celtic being in the Premier League would benefit Sky, that's the point I'm making, whether or not the league itself or the clubs in it would want it - and more of them than you're making out would. Obviously we disagree on Sky's influence but you only have to look at the state of the SPL, the very reason Celtic want to move to the EPL, to see what could happen if the EPL done a deal with someone other than Sky.

  31. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by AM67 View Post
    Celtic being in the Premier League would benefit Sky, that's the point I'm making, whether or not the league itself or the clubs in it would want it - and more of them than you're making out would. Obviously we disagree on Sky's influence but you only have to look at the state of the SPL, the very reason Celtic want to move to the EPL, to see what could happen if the EPL done a deal with someone other than Sky.
    You've just ignored the fact that overall it doesn't benefit them. Business goes two ways. They would lose money trying to bargain it. and How can you possibly say more clubs want when the entire football league refuse to even vote on it. and the PL overwhelmingly don't want it. The only people who really benefit are Celtic.The SPL went down because Setanta folded, so you've got that back to front, ESPN aren't folding, they are massive, one of the worldwide leaders in showing sports. Tthey are still growing fast, and looking to take a chunk out of sky. Sky's plans revolve around them having a near monopoly, the PL and FL know this, that's why the deals go up every time, even though Sky actually had less games to show.

    Richard Scudamore dismisses Premier League move for Old Firm


    • Idea mooted after Rangers went into administration• Premier League at present limited to English and Welsh clubs


    Some have suggested Rangers could move to the English league pyramid. Photograph: Jeff J Mitchell/Getty Images

    Richard Scudamore, the Premier League chief executive, does not believe Celtic and Rangers will ever be allowed to join the English top flight.Suggestions the Old Firm clubs will attempt to leave the Scottish Premier League have surfaced again after Rangers went into administration. One idea would be that Rangers could re-form as a new club and play in England but Scudamore insisted he could not see it happening – and the Old Firm in England's top flight would go against Premier League regulations.Scudamore said:

    "Our rules are simple. It says we're a league formed for clubs that play in England and Wales. I don't see that ever changing. I don't see that changing on my watch, not that my watch may last for long. There's more in it for them than there is for us."The Premier League clubs voted overwhelmingly against allowing the Old Firm clubs into a two-tier Premier League as part of a proposal put forward by the Bolton chairman Phil Gartside in November 2009. The main attraction for Celtic and Rangers would be finance – even the bottom club in the Premier League earns several times more in television money than the two Old Firm clubs

    There, I cant make it any clearer for you
    Last edited by Mike.; 23/03/2012 at 02:46 AM.

  32. Celtic v Manchester United, City, Arsenal, Liverpool etc = high viewers for Sky, more money for tv rights = more money for premier league clubs, home games v celtic = large travelling support = high gates. How does this not benefit Sky and EPL clubs?

    edit: obviously I know it does not benefit every club, but the mid table and lower clubs surely have something to think about

    pretty sure this isn't what we're discussing?:

    "The Premier League clubs voted overwhelmingly against allowing the Old Firm clubs into a two-tier Premier League as part of a proposal put forward by the Bolton chairman Phil Gartside in November 2009.


    Last edited by AM67; 23/03/2012 at 02:52 AM.

  33. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by AM67 View Post
    Celtic v Manchester United, City, Arsenal, Liverpool etc = high viewers for Sky, more money for tv rights = more money for premier league clubs, home games v celtic = large travelling support = high gates. How does this not benefit Sky and EPL clubs?

    edit: obviously I know it does not benefit every club, but the mid table and lower clubs surely have something to think about
    Have you read anything I've written? Celtic are not as big a draw in England as you think. Every club in the Prem gets at minimum about 35 million. Playing Celtic is financially of no real relevance on match day revenue basis for the PL and indeed the Championship. The bottom clubs gets about 4 times more money than Celtic, that's why they don't care. The benefits are minimal that is why it was rejected in 2009. And on a football basis, the league is for England - Wales. No one is going to disrupt that for virtually no benefit. No one is fussed about United/Arsenal/Liverpool - Celtic, except maybe Celtic, because the footballing stock of the club isn't anywhere what it used to be back in the day.
    Last edited by Mike.; 23/03/2012 at 03:12 AM.

  34. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    I cant explain any more why this isn't going to happen in near future. The figures are out there, the Leagues have spoken

  35. Quote Originally Posted by Mike. View Post
    No one is fussed about United/Arsenal/Liverpool - Celtic
    Really? You obviously haven't researched the topic..

  36. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by AM67 View Post
    Really? You obviously haven't researched the topic..
    What topic? I'm talking from a financial perspective, but way to take one small part of my answer totally out of the context it was written in.

  37. Quote Originally Posted by Mike. View Post
    What topic? I'm talking from a financial perspective, but way to take one small part of my answer totally out of the context it was written in.
    Your whole argument has been based on nobody wanting Celtic in the league as there are apparently no benefits, how did I take one small part of your answer totally out of context? Celtic has a huge worldwide fanbase, and like I said before (you obviously didn't read it), Celtic v United/Liverpool etc = high viewers = money for sky, and like you said Celtic in England = more money for English clubs. For the record I personally don't think this will happen but I don't think there is no chance of it at all, especially considering the lengths to which it has been discussed, but to suggest nobody benefits from this but Celtic would be naive.

  38. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by AM67 View Post
    Your whole argument has been based on nobody wanting Celtic in the league as there are apparently no benefits, how did I take one small part of your answer totally out of context? Celtic has a huge worldwide fanbase, and like I said before (you obviously didn't read it), Celtic v United/Liverpool etc = high viewers = money for sky, and like you said Celtic in England = more money for English clubs. For the record I personally don't think this will happen but I don't think there is no chance of it at all, especially considering the lengths to which it has been discussed, but to suggest nobody benefits from this but Celtic would be naive.
    I did read it, but you dont get the fact that the clubs get these viewers anyway. Both the PL and FL have already said that it benefits them far more, hence the vote getting shot down by the PL, and the refusal to vote by the FL. The benefits are minimal, and thus at the moment not worth the hassle. The clubs don't get money per viewer. They get a fixed amount of about 35-40 million through the deal, plus 250k extra for each game shown. Sky would get extra money from more Sky subscribers, but that wouldn't necessarily trickle down to the clubs, hence the lack of substansial benefit. The only club who really benefits is Celtic, who go from about 3m per year tv money to 40 million. No one else gets that type of benefit, hence why no one is wanting it. Unless you are calling Scuadmore, Deloitte et al naive?

  39. Quote Originally Posted by Mike. View Post
    I did read it, but you dont get the fact that the clubs get these viewers anyway. Both the PL and FL have already said that it benefits them far more, hence the vote getting shot down by the PL, and the refusal to vote by the FL. The benefits are minimal, and thus at the moment not worth the hassle. The clubs don't get money per viewer. They get a fixed amount of about 35-40 million through the deal, plus 250k extra for each game shown. Sky would get extra money from more Sky subscribers, but that wouldn't necessarily trickle down to the clubs, hence the lack of substansial benefit. The only club who really benefits is Celtic, who go from about 3m per year tv money to 40 million. No one else gets that type of benefit, hence why no one is wanting it. Unless you are calling Scuadmore, Deloitte et al naive?
    These clubs get Celtic fans viewing their games? I think you've misunderstood what I'm saying mate. Obviously nobody is going to benefit from this as much as Celtic, but we would not be the only ones to benefit from this. Like you say, if Celtic join the English leagues, Celtic fans subscribing etc would lead to more Sky subscribers. This is the obvious benefit for Sky. You also said that if Sky wanted Celtic in England, they would have to pay more to the EPL in TV rights, which would mean each individual club would get a larger slice of the TV deal. If we were to start in League 1, gate recipts would also be a big deal. 6,000 Celtic fans at £25 a ticket away to teams such as Brentford and we'd be the only club benefiting?

  40. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by AM67 View Post
    These clubs get Celtic fans viewing their games? I think you've misunderstood what I'm saying mate. Obviously nobody is going to benefit from this as much as Celtic, but we would not be the only ones to benefit from this. Like you say, if Celtic join the English leagues, Celtic fans subscribing etc would lead to more Sky subscribers. This is the obvious benefit for Sky. You also said that if Sky wanted Celtic in England, they would have to pay more to the EPL in TV rights, which would mean each individual club would get a larger slice of the TV deal. If we were to start in League 1, gate recipts would also be a big deal. 6,000 Celtic fans at £25 a ticket away to teams such as Brentford and we'd be the only club benefiting?
    No i said you would be the only club substansially benefitting in the PL and Championship/L1, especially when compared to the PL. I never said they would have to pay more, I said it would cost them more. there is a difference, in terms of what they would lose trying to fight it. because the PL don't want the Old Firm full stop. This hasnt been decided on a random whim, you dont think the clubs have not had internal financial reports done on any of this?

    League One don't want Celtic, there is more benefit (not much more) for those clubs, but they don't want Celtic or Rangers. Unlike the PL, they actually refuse to even vote on it. You forget that the size of these stadiums are also smaller. Clubs dont rely on playing the big teams like they do in Scotland.

    This is all moot because Sky arent even pushing this.
    Last edited by Mike.; 23/03/2012 at 03:46 AM.

  41. Quote Originally Posted by Mike. View Post
    No i said you would be the only club substansially benefitting in the PL and Championship/L1, especially when compared to the PL. I never said they would have to pay more, I said it would cost them more. there is a difference, in terms of what they would lose trying to fight it. because the PL don't want the Old Firm full stop. This hasnt been decided on a random whim, you dont think the clubs have not had internal financial reports done on any of this?

    League One don't want Celtic, there is more benefit (not much more) for those clubs, but they don't want Celtic or Rangers. Unlike the PL, they actually refuse to even vote on it. You forget that the size of these stadiums are also smaller. Clubs dont rely on playing the big teams like they do in Scotland.

    This is all moot because Sky arent even pushing this.
    Hang on thats not true: smaller teams rejoice when they get a big Premier League club in the FA cup and especially if they get a replay. The two fixtures home and especially an away fixture at a big ground, is worth a lot of money. They do rely on big clubs in England.

    About the first point, I'm not sure thats the problem. The ex chief of the EPL spoke recently about the whole issue, when they last seriously discussed it in the early 2000's: and said there were many comments from chairmen mentioning "hadrians wall" rather than financial problems. So the stuff you posted before about the Football league only allowing English and Welsh teams is probably the main reason.
    Last edited by maxy67; 23/03/2012 at 11:08 AM.

  42. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by maxy67 View Post
    Hang on thats not true: smaller teams rejoice when they get a big Premier League club in the FA cup and especially if they get a replay. The two fixtures home and especially an away fixture at a big ground, is worth a lot of money. They do rely on big clubs in England.
    Not the way Scotland do. The very small teams love it(your Crawleys etc). Its a bonus payday. But PL, Championship and League One, do not survive on it. It is not factored into their day to day survival, like Rangers and Celtic are in the SPL. Plenty of teams wont draw a big side.

  43. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by maxy67 View Post
    Hang on thats not true: smaller teams rejoice when they get a big Premier League club in the FA cup and especially if they get a replay. The two fixtures home and especially an away fixture at a big ground, is worth a lot of money. They do rely on big clubs in England.

    About the first point, I'm not sure thats the problem. The ex chief of the EPL spoke recently about the whole issue, when they last seriously discussed it in the early 2000's: and said there were many comments from chairmen mentioning "hadrians wall" rather than financial problems. So the stuff you posted before about the Football league only allowing English and Welsh teams is probably the main reason.
    Just seen your edit. They voted in 2009. Shot down in flames.

    I agree the "hadrians wall" kind of thing is part of it. Its probably the nail in the coffin, after the initial lack of substansial benefit. The fact that League One wont even vote, suggest that the "hadrians wall" thinking is even stronger there. But the key to this is as always business. That will always be the key factor, among others. It would take a serious amount of about face to change that.

    Some have suggested Rangers could move to the English league pyramid. Photograph: Jeff J Mitchell/Getty Images

    Richard Scudamore, the Premier League chief executive, does not believe Celtic and Rangers will ever be allowed to join the English top flight.Suggestions the Old Firm clubs will attempt to leave the Scottish Premier League have surfaced again after Rangers went into administration. One idea would be that Rangers could re-form as a new club and play in England but Scudamore insisted he could not see it happening – and the Old Firm in England's top flight would go against Premier League regulations.Scudamore said:

    "Our rules are simple. It says we're a league formed for clubs that play in England and Wales. I don't see that ever changing. I don't see that changing on my watch, not that my watch may last for long. There's more in it for them than there is for us."The Premier League clubs voted overwhelmingly against allowing the Old Firm clubs into a two-tier Premier League as part of a proposal put forward by the Bolton chairman Phil Gartside in November 2009. The main attraction for Celtic and Rangers would be finance – even the bottom club in the Premier League earns several times more in television money than the two Old Firm clubs

  44. Lol, love how they're saying "This league is for English and Welsh clubs only".. The FA have been rejecting applications from Welsh clubs for years, I'm pretty sure they would have kicked them all out by now if they could, shame the deal was done 100 years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by maxy67 View Post
    Hang on thats not true: smaller teams rejoice when they get a big Premier League club in the FA cup and especially if they get a replay. The two fixtures home and especially an away fixture at a big ground, is worth a lot of money. They do rely on big clubs in England.
    Lower league clubs want away draws against the big clubs because in the FA cup the gate receipts are shared 50/50.. That's a lot of cash.

  45. Regardless of whether they rely on it or not, playing Celtic would generate a lot of money for League 1 clubs. There is clear advantages to having Celtic in the English league system.

  46. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by AM67 View Post
    Regardless of whether they rely on it or not, playing Celtic would generate a lot of money for League 1 clubs. There is clear advantages to having Celtic in the English league system.
    Not that much, because unlike the FA cup, its not a 50-50 split. The reason clubs love playing United in the FA cup, is because at OT they would get 50% of the gate takings from a 76000 stadium. On a normal away day its more like 3000 at best. Therefore the benefit isnt anything near massive. You can keep saying there is a clear benefit, but financially it doesnt quite ring true.

    Plus as Maxy67 puts it, the clubs are going on about "Hadrians Wall". They dont want Celtic anyway, regardless of any potential benefits, small or not.

  47. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    If only Celtic would spend this much energy pushing for much needed reforms to save their own league...

  48. Quote Originally Posted by Mike. View Post
    If only Celtic would spend this much energy pushing for much needed reforms to save their own league...
    Celtic aren't pushing for a League 1 switch, this debate has been sparked by a bullshit story in The People.

    Celtic chief Peter Lawwell calls for the SPL to be increased to 14 teams as he bids to end voting row - The Daily Record

    League 1 average attendance is like 9k, 10k? Not entirely sure so correct me if I'm wrong but 6k travelling Celtic supporters at £25 a ticket is £150,000. How can you dismiss that as 'not that much' for League 1 clubs? In addition to that any home FA cup draws we get a 60k attendance would be split.

  49. Mike.'s Avatar Mike.
    Super Moderator
    Quote Originally Posted by AM67 View Post
    Celtic aren't pushing for a League 1 switch, this debate has been sparked by a bullshit story in The People.

    Celtic chief Peter Lawwell calls for the SPL to be increased to 14 teams as he bids to end voting row - The Daily Record

    League 1 average attendance is like 9k, 10k? Not entirely sure so correct me if I'm wrong but 6k travelling Celtic supporters at £25 a ticket is £150,000. How can you dismiss that as 'not that much' for League 1 clubs? In addition to that any home FA cup draws we get a 60k attendance would be split.

    1) FA Cup, most teams wont even get to play Celtic, which is why that kind of pay day isnt factored in. Its a lucky draw, which any particular club may not experience.

    2) 6k travelling Supporters? Right well that wont happen as that is more than 50 percent of most home ground stadia, your allocation by the home side wont be anywhere near that high, beside its their home tickets they rely on, not the away fans.

    Anyway, you wont get into the English leagues, so its moot. Rather you should be concentrating on the many ways you can boost your own league.
    Last edited by Mike.; 23/03/2012 at 07:14 PM.
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