4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)

  1. 4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)

    Hello all,

    been struggling for over a year to create a 4-2-3-1 wide formation playing as close the AI does. After long time and some hard effort I think I 've come to a good one which I would like to share with you.

    Here is the Formation:

    4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)-formation.png

    Let me explain some of the elements in this tactic. What I wanted was:
    • Good balance between attack and defence
    • defend as efficiently as possible since I have mediocre defenders
    • be able to transition in the Attacking phase as fast as possible
    • being able to patiently build up and create chances against organised opposition defence
    • the striker should participate in the game create and score (a tough task in 4-2-3-1)
    • should win possession providing a safer approach to the game
    • press the opposition defence to prevent building their play from the back-provoking long balls and clearings
    • tactic should work both for home and away games
    While some of the instructions might seem countering each other (counter attack and high tempo vs Retain Possession) in practice I found out they work pretty nicely, each one providing the needed functionality.

    The tactic's heart is the AP. Lorenzo Pellegrini a 'Serie B class' midfielder is having the time of his life and has skyrocketed his personal statistics and value as well (was brought as a free transfer). This player is the brain of the team so all mental attributes should be to a decent level.

    4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)-pellegrini.png


    The second most important creative player is the AM(C). He will provide chances and also complement the lone Striker in the center of the attack, occasionally finding the net as well. Zezinho another free signing from Brazil also having a good season helping the team with 3 goals and 4 assists. This one should have creative (Passing, Decisions, Vision) and decent attacking attributes (Off the ball, Finishing, Long Shots).

    4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)-zezinho.png


    About the two Wingers. I want them to be able to penetrate opposition defence and either create or score. Ideally I would like them to have good Pace, Acceleration, Agility, Stamina, Off the Ball, Dribbling, Decisions, Crossing, Passing and the usual Teamwork, Workrate, Determination.

    But since I am a low profile club and can't attract good players I focused on Pace, Acceleration, Agility, Dribbling.

    The AMLs:

    4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)-aml1.png4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)-aml2.png

    and the AMRs:

    4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)-amr1.png4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)-amr2.png


    And the Striker. I have experimented with many roles (DF, DLF, T, AF) and found out that the Complete Forward is the most efficient one - also the most expensive in attributes but don't let that hold you back. I again focused on a player able to run fast toward the opposition area and penetrate their line if needed, I also looked for decent attacking, finishing and mental stats.
    Soumare was bought from STVV for 185k (!) and he is having a great season so far - also considered as the key player of my team in the Club page. Bianco is with us for the 2nd season (also loaned him when in League 2) and proves a very good back up with decent potential. To sum it up the attributes I look for are Pace, Acceleration, Agility, Dribbling, Off the Ball, Finishing, Composure, Decisions, Determination.

    4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)-cf1.png4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)-cf2.png


    The DLP. This is the only position being sacrificed meaning that he rarely gets a high rating but also almost never underperforms. His primary task is to sit very deep and provide the extra strength in the defensive line (forming a 5-man back line at some point) while claiming opposition clearings and recycling possession. He will also provide some support on the left fullback when attacking but this player is not really participating in the attacking phase of the game. As you can see both are BWM rather than DLP but that was done intentionally as my defenders are mediocre and preferred the extra protection to creativity.

    4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)-dlp1.png4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)-dlp2.png


    Our defenders aren't something special, I will prefer again speed for the fullbacks at the flank and at least one Central defender being physically strong and good in claiming headers. I also look for decent mental attributes to avoid errors, wild clearings and promote my 'Play out of Defence' instruction.

    4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)-dl.png4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)-cdspd.png4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)-cdstr.png4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)-dr.png

    This tactic brought great success in my second season in French League 2 with Footbal Club de Chably-Thelle promoting us to League1 and earning me the overachiever achievement.

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    The above players' screenshots come from our League1 adventure (current season). Take a look at some statistics highlights.

    Standings:
    4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)-standings.png

    Average Possession:

    4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)-avgposs.png

    Pass Completion:

    4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)-passcmp.png

    Shots on Target:

    4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)-shotrg.png

    Dribbles per game:

    4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)-drb.png

    Tacklings Won:

    4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)-tckw.png


    Needless to say I started the season with the goal to fight bravely against relegation and was tipped 2000:1 by the bookmakers to win the title.

    Managing the team inside the game: I was expecting the AI to exploit the gap behind my AP and so it happened to some extent until I put the 'Hold Position' instruction on this role.

    If we are back at the score, I won't rush in tactical alterations first wanting to see how the team responds to getting behind.
    If I see we need to push more first move is to add the 'Look for Overlap' instruction.
    If we need more pressure I will then add the 'Get Further Forward' instruction to both Fullbacks.
    If nothing good occurs (seldom) I will then put both fullbacks to Attacking and change the Team Mentality to Control.

    If we win with one goal I won't be changing anything.
    In general when I see we are in control of the game with a decent lead I am not making any changes besides going to Normal tempo.
    Because this is a high pressing tactic (expensive on players condition) near 70' and later I will progressively lower team's tempo (first going to Much lower) then adding 'Take a Breather'.

    If you intend to try this one give your team some time to learn it. Also since there are no super tactics do not think your game coaching role is over you have to look out for that underperforming defender or the highly skilled opposition attacker causing you problems.

    A Youtube vid with Chably's historic victory goals against OM:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUEUlFovIA8

    And finally a download link for the tactic:
    4-2-3-1_Overachiever_43D766F3-57BF-4E96-B816-9EF78D9E77C7


    PS - apologies for the long, pictures heavy, overwhelming post. I just wanted to be as detailed so that people understand in the best possible way.
    Last edited by Overachiever; 07/01/2017 at 04:13 AM.

  2. Good tactic! Thanks!

  3. what is your tactic's op

  4. Quote Originally Posted by pamphee View Post
    Good tactic! Thanks!
    Hope you enjoy it. Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by erhank52 View Post
    what is your tactic's op
    If you mean OIs I have an Assistant Manager with 17 Tactical Knowledge so I let him choose OIs before the match.

  5. Some more action in this game, I had to face Girondins de Bordeaux at home who were the clear favorites.

    4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)-odds.png

    Having played and lost against them but also missing my best defender Alonso I decided to follow a safer approach for this one. What I did was:
    • Put the AP to a CM(D) role so that I give more support to the central defenders when defending
    • Removed the 'Get Further Forward' instruction from my AMS(S)so that he stays a bit deeper and helping in the build-up
    • nothing else was changed
    This small change produced a superb win against Bordeaux.

    4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)-mtcsts.png4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)-plarats.png

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQJ5BUMkJqg

    I am now using this tweak more and more either in away games or when I feel the game is wide open and we allow good chances for the opposition.

    Another tweak I use is when I see a certain side (Left or Right) getting more pressure (e.g left fullback is being dribbled frequently or gets a yellow card due to a late tackle) I remove the 'Get Further Forward' instruction from the relevant winger so he stays a bit deeper. Most of the times this results in that side becoming more solid defensively.

  6. Just a quick update as the end of season came.

    Despite having the chance to fight for the 5th position which offered a EURO CUP qualification we failed against RC Lens at home loosing with 1-0. Last game was away at PSG a team which is above all others still we lost with a 1-0 score and played quite good.

    Final Standings:

    4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)-standings.png

    The 6th position was offering a EURO CUP qualification (3rd stage qualifying) provided the teams in the French Cup were already qualified for European competitions. And so it happened AS Monaco beat Olympic Lyonnais and...

    4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)-euroq.png

    Being #1 favorite for relegation along with Angers SCO and getting qualified for continental football ...well by far the most enjoyable FM2016 season I had so far.

  7. New season just started and spent so much time to find new players!

    First match was a tough one against Olympique Lyonnais at home. I started with my defensive tweak [AP (A ) ---> CM (D)] and soon we were leading 1-0. But on the 20' one of our central defenders makes a reckless tackling (a bad decision 100%) and he gets sent off. A bit later OL got a penalty and equalized!

    I have a 10-man tactic which I will share. It sacrifices the wingers so subs are needed.

    4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)-form.png4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)-inst.png

    One of the Attacking Midfielders -the AP (S)- is missing so basically you have 2x BWM and a CM in support role complementing the SS and the CF (A ) in front.

    The high tempo is used to catch the opposition defence unprepared and in this match I had few but very good chances almost all being 'one on one' and finally took the game by 2-1.

    Around 80' I started lowering the tempo (Normal, Very Low, Take a Breather, etc.) not dramatically but rather in small steps - I 've found that if I go instantly for a heavy defensive outlook I mostly concede right away, loosing matches too!

    Small game update: we were drawn against AZ in the 2nd qualifying round of EURO Cup and a very interesting thing happened:

    Tycoon eyes FC Chably-Thelle and look to invest large sums of money in players and facilities.

    4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)-378120_20170112074051_1.png
    Last edited by Overachiever; 13/01/2017 at 01:49 PM.

  8. Going to try this with my newly promoted Leeds team, as it is a shape we use anyway, and I have IF's who can play as Wingers,

    Anyone with the Money, Lewis cook is a great young player in the AP role in my usual tactis, I feel he'll work just as well here.

  9. I have added the work ball into box Team Instructions. This has meant we are converting chances we create as we are dominating possession but taking long shots.

  10. Hey peterbolam78 you did right as most of the times I do this too. I just don't do it straight away so that I allow quick counter transitions to be executed especially against stronger oppositions. If I see bad finishing moves then I switch to it - my assistant manager also points that out 9/10 times! How is your Leeds performing with this tactic? How familiar are the players with it? (VERY important). I had many transfers this summer and the tactic familiarity dropped to 30% !!!

    I am testing my defensive tweak and what I did besides the usual change in the AP to CM(D) was to also remove the 'Get Further Forward' instruction to the Wingers and the Attacking Midfielder.This results in a more compact shape with solid defensive behaviour, stealing balls, outmuscling opponents, etc. but I need to test more.


    Also against 4-4-2 and those dreaded crosses, I use a set of tweaks (still under testing). The plan is to neutralize "4-4-2 flank game" and hit in the center of their defence with the Striker and the AMC. Here is the list of those tweaks:
    • Remove the 'Get Further Forward' from the wingers
    • AP gets a Support Role (remove Attack role)
    • AM gets an Attacking Role

    I have also added 'Look for Overlap' as a permanent instruction as it provides more width and is not very risky - I have noticed that with this instruction Wingers become more static and wait for the fullback to come close so they have more support.

    One last thing at home I change the mentality to Standard.
    Last edited by Overachiever; 15/01/2017 at 02:44 PM.

  11. ok so we have only lost one and that was to Arsenal 2-0, whilst strangely trying to be a bit more defensive. I have used the shape of this tactic as we used the same shape last year in our unbeaten Championship run, The only additions were Begovic a snip at 6.5 million from Chelsea, and Willi Orban at the back.

    Now the tweaks I find effective. The AM behind the striker I sometimes change to an AP-S as my striker can get isolated by defensive teams and the role change means we have a nice link, My FB are changed to A and I have added both look for overlap and work ball into box.

    Away we use the counter mentality, at home against weaker teams I use attacking. the players stats speak for themselves, Lewis Cook (AP centre midfield) has an England cap and is my 19 yr old Captain, Charlie Taylor (LFB) is being touted for the next England squad. I sold players last year and was lucky to be given quite a bit of money by my then owner Cellino we invested in Dembele (CF) Mammana (CD) and Cyrus Christie (RB from Derby, highly recommend him to anyone) then as we raised more funds we grabbed Sheyi Ojo, Ademola Lookman and Lewis Dunk. so only two additions this season meant we were fluid very quickly, so now my Assistant deals with team and match training as well as OI's (however I always add closing and weaker foot to the opposition full backs) and I handle individual training.

    All midfielders have play killer passes training and those who adapt use it. Aslo my strikers get break offside trap training.

    All in all this is a tactic I enjoy, I'd like to score more but my whole team is fairly young so I can forgive my strikers missing chances. defensively it's sound in my opinion


    I alter the defensive line depending on how quick their players are up front, but this tactic is not only a good one to use as is, but also allows a bit of experimentation to get the best out of a team while maintaining a very good shape.

    For proof the screenshots are my current league performance and then my first eleven's averages to the current point.


    I start pre-season to allow 5 weeks and we play 8-10 friendlies against varying quality teams from non league to top leagues we beat Atletico this year in pre season.


    Highly recommend this tactic.


    seriously I can not recommend it enough

    we are actually overachieving with it and survival should be a long forgotten target,
    Let's see how high up we can finish
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)-leeds-united_-overview.png   4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)-english-premier-division_-overview-profile.png  

  12. forgot to add the change I make occasionally with is the AP (centre midfield) to a RPM which can offer us more passing options

  13. Hey peterbolam78 thanks for the nice report.

    The striker is supposed to be isolated forcing the opposition central defenders staying back with his runs. That's why I always leave him with an Attack role. With the 'Move into channels' instruction (provided he has decent technical skills) he will find the space and penetrate efficiently the opposition's area.

    Turning the AM(S) into an AP(S) results in playing with 3 playmakers which means minimal support for the striker in the transition phase. I have experimented a lot with AP(S) and AP( A) in 4-2-3-1. AP(S) is a static role and only shines in possession football where he creates and sometimes scores. AP( A) on the other hand IMHO is not in the right position to create an effective link with the midfielders. My guess is you are playing possession football at the moment which is quite good.

    *Check the below vid of how I expect the AMC to behave in the transition phase (sorry for the bad quality had to manually record and upload so that the whole highlight is presented)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3GF3Plz6uQ

    You couldn't be more correct about the 'Tries killer passes' and 'Break Offside Trap'. I 'd love to have the through balls on my AP and AM and the offside breakthrough on the CF.

    I was surprised to see you experimented with an RPM - that was my first approach when I started this save in French National division and had great success. But as the game progressed the AI exploited the gap behind the RPM and the party was over. I tried providing cover to him with the right defender (Sit Narrower, Cut Inside) but it didn't work, was still conceding so I changed to the AP ( A).


    I alter the defensive line depending on how quick their players are up front, but this tactic is not only a good one to use as is, but also allows a bit of experimentation to get the best out of a team while maintaining a very good shape.
    This phrase of yours sums it up very nicely. That's exactly of how I see things with this tactic. Glad you enjoying it and having great success with it. Keep us posted.

    PS - Mammana is a great capture and provided he is not unlucky with injuries he will become a top class defender.

  14. I think most of the issues we have finishing the ball is due to a very young strikeforce both are 19 but I believe they will be great, I am finding the RPM finds more space than the AP in that position and for now my DLP is covering the gap between midfield and defence, I will report back how it evolves.


    The FB's set to FB-A all the time is a joy to watch as they bomb forward and allow my wingers more scope to move inside or stay outside.


    Also, going to take a serious look at the behind striker role as an Enganche, tried it a few times for short periods of games and the behind striker AM seems to me to get more involved with play and is moving the defenders round more than the AM, which is working for me
    Last edited by peterbolam78; 16/01/2017 at 03:57 PM.

  15. played a few games and the original role of AM behind the striker is indeed the most effective, so the only changes I hae made is to add Look for overlap, and work ball into box.

    Also set the FB-S to FB-A on both sides

    Are the corners more effective as inswingers or outswingers?

    as usually I use set pieces I have devised but the look of yours are worth a try

    will also try the tweak to cut out crosses from a 4-4-2 as the Premier league has a few teams who use it


    And to confirm I watch all games in Full match
    Last edited by peterbolam78; 16/01/2017 at 04:45 PM.

  16. Hey again!

    In my first season I was playing with Bianco being 'redish' as a Complete Forward (till he learned the role) yet he performed nicely. The striker is the only player I am patient with and don't make changes at all - always leaving him as Complete Forward (Attack). Of course there will be times where the player is just having a bad day and should be subbed but that is a move I would consider after the 65' of the game.
    *I had many times my striker playing at a 6.5 rating and suddenly scoring and ending the game with an 8.0+ rating.

    Saying your striker is young another issue might be consistency. Check their form for that characteristic 'one up & one down' graph which is evident of an inconsistent performer. In that case only match experience can help.

    Seems you have created a strong side and you dominate possession.

    I give 'Look for Overlap' along with 'Work into the box' only if I have plenty of possession (60% or more). I would also put my fullbacks that advanced only if the opponent is parking the bus, forcing me to open their defence from the flanks. I have plenty of bad experience getting torn apart from the flanks so I prefer to stay on the safe side regarding this aspect of the game.

    Set Pieces are not mine, I have copied them from another guy and honestly we don't get that many goals from them. I have noticed though that Set Pieces start to be rewarding only when you train Attacking Set Pieces. I do this for at least a month throughout the season. Same goes for Defending Set Pieces if you feel you are conceding a lot from corners or IFKs.

    In general I watch most matches in Comprehensive which I find quite informative and some (those against weak opponents) in Extended.

    Cheers!

  17. Confused

    I am not sure how to add the download link for a file,

    So I have posted my corner routine, Where possible the left corner taker should be left footed and right sided right footer. I aim the corners to the penalty spot, these work quite well for me, my concession is that my current right winger is my best corner taker hence he is on both.


    the routine is mirrored on both side and we do ok for goals and possession retention at the breakdown.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)-leeds-v-aston-villa_-tactics-corners.png  

  18. So overall my tactics is the same as your post, with sometimes a change to FB roles, sometime a work into box, and look for overlap, these are mostly when we struggle against defensive teams, I use my corner routine which I fine effective. The rest is the original tactic,

    You may never get another download or post,

    But you have helped me get my leeds team to top of the Premier league at the halfway mark in our first season back at the top league.


    So many thanks

  19. Throw ins

    This is my throw in routine, FB's take them from their side, I find we get the ball to our players and then the opportunity to get in a cross where a second central defender is waiting
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 4-2-3-1 Overachiever (LLM)-leeds-v-aston-villa_-tactics-throw-ins.png  

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