Can't Beat the Big Teams - Chelsea

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WalkerRFC

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Hi,

My philosophy is to get men behind the ball and primarily be solid defensively and hit on the counter; I play this home and away and currently sit a point clear at the top of the league. However, my record against the top 5 is poor. Beaten 3-0 off Man Utd, 2-1 off Man City, 0-0 with Newcastle (2nd place), beaten 3-0 by Dortmund then 0-0, 1-1 with Marseille, 0-0 with FC Kobenhavn; we just can't perform in the big games (all away from home apart from Newcastle game and Dortmund 0-0).

I'm looking for some help.

I set out "Fluid" and "Counter" then go "Defensive" if we score. I play 4-2-3-1 with two DMs and two wingers.
Czech (goalkeeper defend), Azpilicueta and Cole (fullback automatic), Luiz and Terry (cover and stopper), Matic and Ramires (anchorman and defensive midfielder support), Hazard on the left (inside forward support), Oscar (attacking midfielder support), Willian on the right (advanced playmaker or defensive winger support), and Mandzukic up top as (defensive forward support).

Instructions: more direct passing, work ball into box, look for overlap, drop much deeper, much higher tempo, more disciplined, tighter marking, stay on feet, hassle opponents, play narrower, run at defence.

Even at home, where I am unbeaten, my 3 attacking midfielders have been largely ineffective. Oscar has 2 PL goals, Willian has 2 PL goals, Hazard has one and 7 assists. Mandzukic has 10 PL goals and I reckon 7 or 8 have been headers, mainly via set pieces.

Any help is appreciated, I have SLB in the first knockout round and need to get the defensive tactic right for the away leg. Additionally, if I beat Utd it's a big step towards the title.

Cheers,
Aidan
 
Ha ha. I want to play this style as I've set myself the challenge of emulating the Mourinho style. Any help?
 
I am having a similar problem with Mansfield, I know this is no help to you but I am hoping to see what people say. I am now in league 1, I can usually beat lower teams but when I play anyone near the top, and it was same in league 2 I get destroyed. I normally play an attacking 4411.

When I played previously as Man Utd, I kept an attacking formation for all home games, but tricky away games I played 5131, with pacey wing backs, anchor man and played on the counter. It worked to an extent but not fail safe.
 
When I play on the counter on my Wolves save I tend to play rigid or balanced rather than fluid, pass into space and with a lower tempo. This has got me wins on my way into the Premier League and got me into 9th in my first season.
 
WalkerRFC said:
Hi,

My philosophy is to get men behind the ball and primarily be solid defensively and hit on the counter; I play this home and away and currently sit a point clear at the top of the league. However, my record against the top 5 is poor. Beaten 3-0 off Man Utd, 2-1 off Man City, 0-0 with Newcastle (2nd place), beaten 3-0 by Dortmund then 0-0, 1-1 with Marseille, 0-0 with FC Kobenhavn; we just can't perform in the big games (all away from home apart from Newcastle game and Dortmund 0-0).

I'm looking for some help.

I set out "Fluid" and "Counter" then go "Defensive" if we score. I play 4-2-3-1 with two DMs and two wingers.
Czech (goalkeeper defend), Azpilicueta and Cole (fullback automatic), Luiz and Terry (cover and stopper), Matic and Ramires (anchorman and defensive midfielder support), Hazard on the left (inside forward support), Oscar (attacking midfielder support), Willian on the right (advanced playmaker or defensive winger support), and Mandzukic up top as (defensive forward support).

Instructions: more direct passing, work ball into box, look for overlap, drop much deeper, much higher tempo, more disciplined, tighter marking, stay on feet, hassle opponents, play narrower, run at defence.

Even at home, where I am unbeaten, my 3 attacking midfielders have been largely ineffective. Oscar has 2 PL goals, Willian has 2 PL goals, Hazard has one and 7 assists. Mandzukic has 10 PL goals and I reckon 7 or 8 have been headers, mainly via set pieces.

Any help is appreciated, I have SLB in the first knockout round and need to get the defensive tactic right for the away leg. Additionally, if I beat Utd it's a big step towards the title.

Cheers,
Aidan
Click to expand...


just some quick observations.

Drop much deeper may be too much.

Based on my understanding on some of the shouts, they contradict each other. Playing fluid and "more disciplined" is one such contradiction.

Look for overlap causes your wingers to hold the ball, play slowly, and wait/look for your FBs to overlap, so that contradicts with your much higher tempo and more direct passing shouts. It also asks your FBs to get forward more, which again, contradicts your drop much deeper command.

I think that giving your players all these defensive roles, PLUS, ordering your team to play defensively, is why you cant score.

BUT, and this is a HUGE but, it sounds like you havent played half of a season yet? So your team hasnt had enough time to fully gel and figure out the tactic and how to play. Plus, if you are switching your tactic up every game (by switching to defensive) it may take longer.
 
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Hi lads,

Thanks for your replies.

4 games to go and I've won the league, 15 points clear. I'm also in the semi-final of the Champions League vs Schalke. The team seemed to just click mid-late February, although I did make some changes. Hazard became an advanced playmaker attack on the left, and went from zero to hero and is in the running for young player and player of the year. I changed Mandzukic to a Target Man Attack and he is currently on 28 goals, a far cry from the fraction of goals he was on when I posted this thread. A defensive winger support on the right seems to work perfectly, and I normally play Ramires there to mark the left winger of the opposite team out of the match.

I found that playing much deeper lead to the opposition having around 20-30 shots on goal albeit from long range. This did result in us conceding eventually. Playing only deeper, we were still compact and defensively solid but took the opposition away from our goal and reduced the space they had to play. Luiz covering gave us an effective safety net. At the end of games, I'd switch to defensive and bring on Matic as an anchorman; he has low stamina but the perfect anchorman attributes.

Additionally, an attacking midfielder attack at home was deadly (Willian). Oscar has been awful in every role, in short. Even Van Ginkel, recalled from Norwich in January, has outperformed him. In big counter attack matches, put the attacking mid to support so he pressurises the central players of the opposition, but ask him to dribble more so he still attacks effectively.

I have more advice if you need.

cheers,
Aidan
 
Playing fluid and more disciplined is fine. You have to give your players some creative freedom at least. Plus fluid and defensive etc work fine.

But I don't understand why you'd play deeper while set up defensive, basically you'd have everyone behind the ball very close to your box with no outlet to counter attack.

As a big team against big teams doesn't mean you have to go defensive you have good enough players to play the ball and control the games, even away from home, for example;

I joined Arsenal in 2016 and my first away game was City who hadn't lost at home in the league for 2 years. I thought I didn't want to be another victim of their home form so I played on control and pressed them, limited their space and attacked them down the flanks. We drew 1-1 but dominated, we had 4 CCC and they had 2 shots (scoring from a set piece)

I got to the CL semi final and was matched up against Chelsea. We drew 1-1 in the first leg after a sending off we went to Stamford Bridge on standard and we pressed them up the pitch and won 4-0.

My point is if you are a big side and you have City coming up don't play into their hands by defending. You have good enough players to create chances and a good enough defence to shut them out. Now I am not saying play a much higher line, hassle, attacking etc just make sure you have more than 1 player past the half way line and you can very easily beat the bigger sides.
 
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