Help needed with my tactic

[toreolav]

Hey guys!

I have read all the guides and helpthreads regarding tactic in the sticky thread, but I have not managed to create a tactic that I feel works. I know that it takes time before the team has learned what I want them to do in my tactic, but I am not confident enough to keep my tactic, and done do changes for every match that it doesnt go so well.
My favorite formation is 4231, which I have been using with success the last versions of FM.

I want to play attacking football, cant disappoint the fans on tyneside which remembers the entertainers!

My squad is this, so you need what I got to work with:
View attachment 210495

Role and duties:
GK: sweeper keeper-defend (Horn)
DR: fullback-support (janmaat)
CD: central defender-defend (mbemba)
CD: central defender-defend (balanta)
DL: fullback-support (haidara)
MCR: deeplying playmaker-defend (romero)
MCL: boxtobox midfielder-support (sissoko)
AMR: either inside forward or winger, both support. depends on which player I am using in the posistion
AMC: advanced playmaker-attack (wijnaldum)
AML: either inside forward or winger, both support. depends on which player I am using in the posistion
S: complete forward-attack (mitrovic)

Team instructions:
control-flexible
normal defenceline
normal tempo
play out of defence
mixed passing
look for overlap
work the ball into the box.

The idea is that the complete forward is the center of attention in attack, he will be fed with through balls from the advanced playmaker or the inside forwards (if used), and crosses from wingers (if used) and the overlapping fullbacks. the advanced playmaker is supposed to come into the box to help the striker, so will the inside forwards, if the ball is on the other side of the pitch. the boxtobox midfielder is supposed to offer an alternative just outside the box, while the deeplying playmaker will stay back and stop counter attacks. the deeplying playmaker is crucial in the buildup of the attack and spread passes forwards to the 4 players in front of him or the boxtobox midfielder beside him. We will play patiently from the back, and sting as a bee as soon as the opponent is out of balance. We also want to counter quickly if it is a possibility. I dont see ball possesion as a must, at least not on the road, so it could be a counter tactic could work when playing away from home?

Anyone got any ideas on how to kick me in the right direction?
All help is appreciated

Cheers guys!

 

[WJ]

I have read all the guides

It would be worth implementing them too.

How to Play FM and Pairs & Combinations would be worth reading again, in this case. Your duty allocations could be improved.

You've also not actually said what the issue is?

 

[RonaldoReal9King]

From what i understand using "look for overlap" slows down your play and especially since you are using fullbacks on support. Players will look for overlaps but there wont be any happening so they will hold on to the ball for no reason.

 

[toreolav]

It would be worth implementing them too.

How to Play FM and Pairs & Combinations would be worth reading again, in this case. Your duty allocations could be improved.

You've also not actually said what the issue is?

Ill do that
How could my duty allocations be improved?

Basically, I do not create enough chances, I average 1,5 goals a game, but some of those goals is just pure luck.
And i concede to many goals, I average 1,5 conceding goals.

 

[toreolav]

From what i understand using "look for overlap" slows down your play and especially since you are using fullbacks on support. Players will look for overlaps but there wont be any happening so they will hold on to the ball for no reason.

By that do you think I should set the fullbacks to attack, to be able to get forward more often?
I think that would set my team out of balance, so maybe just untick overlap all together?

 

[WJ]

Ill do that
How could my duty allocations be improved?

Basically, I do not create enough chances, I average 1,5 goals a game, but some of those goals is just pure luck.
And i concede to many goals, I average 1,5 conceding goals.

You've answered your own question? Your entire tactic is based on a single forward having to find space somehow against at least 2 defenders. Nothing is coming from anywhere else. He needs support.

 

[toreolav]

You've answered your own question? Your entire tactic is based on a single forward having to find space somehow against at least 2 defenders. Nothing is coming from anywhere else. He needs support.

How do I give him the support he deserves?

 

[WJ]

How do I give him the support he deserves?

By getting a better balance on your duty allocation - again, the guides (which you read?) are quite clear here.

 

[toreolav]

By getting a better balance on your duty allocation - again, the guides (which you read?) are quite clear here.

Yes, I did read them, and I am working my through the complete guide again now Tried to post here earlier what I had trouble getting a grasp of, but the forum denied me to post it. But I`ll try again

From what I get from the complete guide, is a quite assymetrical tactic..? With one fullback attacking, and one fullback support, and the same with the wingers. Why is that?

 

[aramis]

That guides are not so easy to implement. But don't give up. I wont.

 

[WJ]

Yes, I did read them, and I am working my through the complete guide again now Tried to post here earlier what I had trouble getting a grasp of, but the forum denied me to post it. But I`ll try again

From what I get from the complete guide, is a quite assymetrical tactic..? With one fullback attacking, and one fullback support, and the same with the wingers. Why is that?

You don't have to, but it is the recommended way. It adds variety.

1 - It ensures that you have one wide player who IS a constant threat going forward.

2 - On the other side, it should see the other fullback drawn up field and and overlap created. Movement between the lines - a key element in football.

Now, you can go with both wings on Attack with the fullbacks on Support. It just makes you a bit more one dimensional in creating goals. Not an issue if that one dimension to your play works. More ways to score goals = more chance of goals against almost any setup and more success.

You can even go the opposite route and have 2 support wingers with 2 attack fullbacks. Again, quite one-dimensional, but can work.

 

[toreolav]

That guides are not so easy to implement. But don't give up. I wont.

Thank you aramis I am impatient by nature, but I`ll try
Good luck!

 

[toreolav]

You don't have to, but it is the recommended way. It adds variety.

1 - It ensures that you have one wide player who IS a constant threat going forward.

2 - On the other side, it should see the other fullback drawn up field and and overlap created. Movement between the lines - a key element in football.

Now, you can go with both wings on Attack with the fullbacks on Support. It just makes you a bit more one dimensional in creating goals. Not an issue if that one dimension to your play works. More ways to score goals = more chance of goals against almost any setup and more success.

You can even go the opposite route and have 2 support wingers with 2 attack fullbacks. Again, quite one-dimensional, but can work.

I see what you mean
For the 4 frontmen, what changes would you recommend for them? To be able offer more support for my lone striker, and help open up rooms for him or one of the other front men to run into.

 

[toreolav]

Regarding my two central midfielders, I would really like Sissoko to be in a BoxtoBox midfielder role. Is this achieveable in a 4231 formation, or will it be a to attacking role for this formation? I am having trouble seeing if this is a runner role, that can be paired with a sitter role :/

My current setup of these two central midfielders is MCL as boxtobox midfielder, and MCR as deeplying playmaker defend.

 

[RonaldoReal9King]

Allot of guides go into things that is not needed going into. Allot of guides can be shortened by a whole lot if they were to just write the important things. Allot of guides are overcomplicated for no reason as well. Im not saying guides are bad but thats my take on guides.

As for the "look for overlap". I would honestly just remove that all together. Reason why i would do that is because i dont feel like overlaps work well enough in the game for it to be useful. Often you will see a run opportunity and the player will just not take it for whatever reason. I feel like the only way for "look for overlap" to be useful is if you give your fullbacks an extremely attacking role and have fast players like Bellerin for example.

 

[WJ]

Allot of guides go into things that is not needed going into. Allot of guides can be shortened by a whole lot if they were to just write the important things. Allot of guides are overcomplicated for no reason as well. Im not saying guides are bad but thats my take on guides.

As for the "look for overlap". I would honestly just remove that all together. Reason why i would do that is because i dont feel like overlaps work well enough in the game for it to be useful. Often you will see a run opportunity and the player will just not take it for whatever reason. I feel like the only way for "look for overlap" to be useful is if you give your fullbacks an extremely attacking role and have fast players like Bellerin for example.

That's because the guides do not simply want to give you info with you blindly copying it and no idea what you're doing. They attempt to get you to understand what your doing and why.

 

[c0nk3r]

Allot of guides go into things that is not needed going into. Allot of guides can be shortened by a whole lot if they were to just write the important things. Allot of guides are overcomplicated for no reason as well. Im not saying guides are bad but thats my take on guides.

As for the "look for overlap". I would honestly just remove that all together. Reason why i would do that is because i dont feel like overlaps work well enough in the game for it to be useful. Often you will see a run opportunity and the player will just not take it for whatever reason. I feel like the only way for "look for overlap" to be useful is if you give your fullbacks an extremely attacking role and have fast players like Bellerin for example.

The guides are so interesting though! Reading through it all is fun and helps me understand tactics better. I know it's an FM guide, but it generally applies to actual football as well. Matches are now way more fun (or way more agonising if you're a Man Utd fan ) because now I can dissect and discuss it with my friends!

 

[toreolav]

The guides are really interesting to read, no doubt about that!
But somehow, they can be a little hard to implement in football manager in my opinion.


I found another guide, which is more Football Manager friendly at Guide to Football Manager | FM 2016 Guide.
I recognised many of the concepts, but they were more easy to transfer to Football Manager.


I have tried to implement 3 tactics, after reading the guides in the link above.
I have not tested any of them yet, but I am finally starting to feal kind of confident that I am on the right track

I am playing the game in Norwegian, so instead of screenshots, I have written formation, roles and duties, and TIs here. What do you guys think of this, is there any impovement?


4231AttackingTheFlanks
GK: SweeperKeeper-Support
DR: Fullback-Support
DC: Central Defender-Defend
DC: Central Defender-Defend
DL: Fullback-Support
MCR: Central Midfielder-Support
MCL: DeepLying Playmaker-Defend
AMR: Wing-Attack
AMC: Attacking Midfielder-Support
AML: Wing-Attack
S: TargetMan-Attack


TIs:
Control - Fluid
Play out of defense
Run at defense
Work the ball into the box
Exploit the flanks
Play wider
Play higher
Press more
Get stuck in
be more expressive
roam from position
higher tempo
prevent short gk distribution


433CreativeWingers
GK: Keeper-Defend
DR: Fullback-Attack
DC: Central Defender-Defend
DC: Central Defender-Defend
DL: Fullback-Attack
DCM: Defensive Midfielder-Defend
MCR: Central Midfielder-Attack
MCL: BallwinningMidfielder-Support
AMR: InsideForward-Support
AML: InsideForward-Support
S: CompleteForward-Attack


TIs:
Counter - Fluid
Play out of defense
Run at defense
Work the ball into the box
Exploit the flanks
Play wider
Play higher
Press more
Get stuck in
be more expressive
roam from position
lower tempo
prevent short gk distribution


442CounterAttack
GK: Keeper-Defend
DR: Fullback-Support
DC: Central Defender-Defend
DC: Central Defender-Defend
DL: Fullback-Support
MR: Winger-Attack
MCR: BoxToBoxmidfielder-Support
MCL: DeepLyingPlaymaker-Defend
AML: InsideForward-Attack
SR: CompleteForward-Support
SL: Poacher-Attack


TIs:
Counter - Fluid
Direct passing
Exploit the flanks
play narrower
play lower
be disciplined
stick to positions
lower tempo

 

[WJ]

No guide will tell you to use 12 team instructions right off the bat.

 

[toreolav]

No guide will tell you to use 12 team instructions right off the bat.

Okay, but what about some constructive response?

Forget the TIs then, how is the roles and duties, is that more correct this time?