Football Manager 2014: Slider Removal ? good or bad?

[DannyB10u]

Loving the new system.

Like how (once set at the start) that for example subbing off RVP and bringing on Chicharito will automatically change his role to a Poacher with simplier passing, move into channels etc.

This is a fantastic change!! Love it, hated having to change the roles for every sub

 

[SMcManus84]

We don't know what are they already doing, we don't get to see the role's default instructions.
As for the FB's the point is that maybe, just maybe, it's more logic a FB with a supporting role to cross from a deeper position that an FB with an attacking role. The FB (support) has this option unavailable.

I think the default role instructions are the greyed out boxes you can't select?? I'm not sure tho? That's just what I guessed, then you add the extra instructions such as pass shorter, mark tighter and so on.

 

[Vanjagl]

I dislike it with passion. No more custom tactics, it all comes down to generic 'shouts'. Take a look at your players. You set their mentality on attacking, but you want from your wingers/AMC to be defensive, guess what? Now you can't do it. They are all in the same line. And maybe, somehow, when you have 'shout' that reflects something you could done with slider, it conflicts with player role. So what does it matter if someone is winger, but I cant tell him to drop deeper? Screw this, FM is indeed PEGI 3.

 

[TheBetterHalf]

I dislike it with passion. No more custom tactics, it all comes down to generic 'shouts'. Take a look at your players. You set their mentality on attacking, but you want from your wingers/AMC to be defensive, guess what? Now you can't do it. They are all in the same line. And maybe, somehow, when you have 'shout' that reflects something you could done with slider, it conflicts with player role. So what does it matter if someone is winger, but I cant tell him to drop deeper? Screw this, FM is indeed PEGI 3.

In my opinion, this is the realistic thing about it. The formation you use in FM Is the defensive shape so if using Wingers or Inside FC etc on AMR/L/C, they wont be MR/L /C when defending
One alternative is naturally to not play "Attack" but instead use "Standard" and use the supporting roles and "Hold position" for the players you want more cautious and attacking duties for those you want more adventoures, "get forward more often"

Thing about the chnage though is that there are still a lot of info missing from Si towards the user but then again, the game is not even out yet..

 

[Vanjagl]

It's realistic when you don't have control how your players behave on pitch? It is, but in the same time it isn't. Why can't I say to my striker to drop deep when we're being under attack without using 'defensive forward' and 'defensive mentality'? I want my striker to drift around the box, support the flanks when we have the ball, and thats OK if you use AF. But then, when we dont have the ball, he just sits forward, as he should as a striker. BUT, I want him, like I said before, to help our midfield or defence, to win the ball faster. You cant do it this way. It doesn't need to be the sliders, just make shouts to cover lack of sliders and tactial stuff you could do with them. This new system, along with few others introduced in previous versions tells me that SI is aiming to make the game easier and less technical.

 

[TheBetterHalf]

It's realistic when you don't have control how your players behave on pitch? It is, but in the same time it isn't. Why can't I say to my striker to drop deep when we're being under attack without using 'defensive forward' and 'defensive mentality'? I want my striker to drift around the box, support the flanks when we have the ball, and thats OK if you use AF. But then, when we dont have the ball, he just sits forward, as he should as a striker. BUT, I want him, like I said before, to help our midfield or defence, to win the ball faster. You cant do it this way. It doesn't need to be the sliders, just make shouts to cover lack of sliders and tactial stuff you could do with them. This new system, along with few others introduced in previous versions tells me that SI is aiming to make the game easier and less technical.

I agree that there could be more roles no player can play both as an advanced forward in a " more attacking" strategy and at the same time get behind the ball when the opponents attack. Then he simply wont be an advanced FC.

Now you ar describing to me is a Counter strategy, pushed up, using mor width with a Defensive Forward with "Run wide with ball"( or not), mor risky passes and Move into channels. ( or it coudl be a defenisve winger withget further forward, play more risky..etc) If you want your team using hardworking players but being more expressive and roaming, thn this is added in the team instructions. If

 

[Vanjagl]

I agree that there could be more roles no player can play both as an advanced forward in a " more attacking" strategy and at the same time get behind the ball when the opponents attack. Then he simply wont be an advanced FC.

Now you ar describing to me is a Counter strategy, pushed up, using mor width with a Defensive Forward with "Run wide with ball"( or not), mor risky passes and Move into channels. ( or it coudl be a defenisve winger withget further forward, play more risky..etc) If you want your team using hardworking players but being more expressive and roaming, thn this is added in the team instructions. If

I don't want to sacrifice my attacking style just so my striker can track back. Take Bayern Munchen for example. Last season they played something like Attacking/Counter attacking with and without the ball. If they don't have the ball, they will press and try to win it and struck opponent on fast brake. But when opponent sit back they are playing attacking. It happens numerous times in game. Ideally it would be to have two tactics, one when you have, and other when you don't have the ball. That could do the trick. I started thinking about this in FM11, but there was sliders where you could do that without having two tactics.

 

[TheBetterHalf]

I don't want to sacrifice my attacking style just so my striker can track back. Take Bayern Munchen for example. Last season they played something like Attacking/Counter attacking with and without the ball. If they don't have the ball, they will press and try to win it and struck opponent on fast brake. But when opponent sit back they are playing attacking. It happens numerous times in game. Ideally it would be to have two tactics, one when you have, and other when you don't have the ball. That could do the trick. I started thinking about this in FM11, but there was sliders where you could do that without having two tactics.

To me, that's the Counter strategy. Pushing up, hassle, play wider, retain possession. This will make the team track back and try to retrieve the ball by being compact. When a counter attack is on, all players will act like using the attacking strategy and when the opponent sits deep and defend, you will keep possession trying to stretch their defence by having players moving between the lines.

 

[TJD07]

The defending options are the same, movement ones near enough the same too but with the stay wider/sit narrower options added.
Distribution is only where things are much different but even then the changes aren't much, you're just controlling creative freedom and passing with multiple options instead of 2-3 sliders.


You're basically given the same amount of freedom but in a different form, it's easier to understand and you can apply them to each player separately which is really nice. There could be more roles and the roles could give you a better idea of the "default" settings but even as they are they're fairly easy to judge and understand what they are.

 

[apvmoreira]

I don't want to sacrifice my attacking style just so my striker can track back.

Make him mark the opponent mid

 

[Shiraz]

As TBH mentioned, you can set up a counter-attack system to be attacking when the other team drops off and sits deep but sit back yourself and do quick counters when the opposition is attacking you. A Counter Strategy with the right shouts will achieve it.

 

[Vanjagl]

To me, that's the Counter strategy. Pushing up, hassle, play wider, retain possession. This will make the team track back and try to retrieve the ball by being compact. When a counter attack is on, all players will act like using the attacking strategy and when the opponent sits deep and defend, you will keep possession trying to stretch their defence by having players moving between the lines.

Strategy shouldn't matter. Like I said, I don't want to sacrifice one segment of the play just to accommodate other. I want to play attacking. I want my striker to do all those stuff I wrote. On this new tactic screen, I can't do it without changing mentality.

The defending options are the same, movement ones near enough the same too but with the stay wider/sit narrower options added.
Distribution is only where things are much different but even then the changes aren't much, you're just controlling creative freedom and passing with multiple options instead of 2-3 sliders.


You're basically given the same amount of freedom but in a different form, it's easier to understand and you can apply them to each player separately which is really nice. There could be more roles and the roles could give you a better idea of the "default" settings but even as they are they're fairly easy to judge and understand what they are.

Try telling your deep lying playmaker when playing attacking to sit deep and not to get forward. If you can do that, then kudos to you.

Make him mark the opponent mid

And he will sit on one midfielder. On FM12 I could use my striker to press player with the ball, not just one player.

 

[TheBetterHalf]

Strategy shouldn't matter. Like I said, I don't want to sacrifice one segment of the play just to accommodate other. I want to play attacking. I want my striker to do all those stuff I wrote. On this new tactic screen, I can't do it without changing mentality.


Try telling your deep lying playmaker when playing attacking to sit deep and not to get forward. If you can do that, then kudos to you.


And he will sit on one midfielder. On FM12 I could use my striker to press player with the ball, not just one player.

Well, if the STRATEGY should not matter, then what's the point of having a strategy of your own ? My point is that you CAN setup the approach you want. Previously, you clicked one thing, now you click a different. In the end, if strategy does not matter, why does it matter that its called " Counter" and not " Attack".
Once you get the ball and a counter attack is on, then your players WILL be on an attacking mentality. Once to opponent sit within behind the ball, then they WILL be playing more probing ( with the correct instructions) and they will take a bigger defensive responsibility. In FM13, you tweaked sliders AWAY from the strategy actually being attacking anyway, now you re adjusting the Counter strategy into one that is something inbetween
Also

 

[Vanjagl]

Players will act differently on counter and on attacking. We no longer can place player on ultra defensive while we are having attacking mentality. Shouts can be good, you can use them to achieve most things, but they lack of that little bit of extra you could do in 12. It does't need to be slider, just make shouts available for all roles. I can't tell my winger to drop deep. It's idiotic if you ask me.

Stategy doesn't matter in the sence I gave Attacking/Counter as example. Can you play Defensive/Counter, or Defensive/Control? You probably could, but the thing I'm talking to is player roles and duties.

 

[miguelalves]

I was doing just fine with sliders, didn't have a problem understanding the concepts. So, since the concepts are the same basically I also don't have a problem with having no sliders What I believe seems to be the problem is that we don't get to know what are the default instructions of a player's role. We know the instructions unavailable for a role, but by unavailable does this mean they are the default instructions (hard coded) ???
Then there is another issue and let me giver an example: with FM 13, a player could make more risky passes frequently, sometimes ou rarely; in FM14, certain roles give us both options, more risky passes, less risky passes. So, if we don't choose any does this mean that the player will go for the risky passes sometimes (to use the fm13 expression) ???
Finally, I believe SI tried to help most people by removing sliders but right now I think this is new system is some how exagerated by the reason exposed above and by not letting a major customization of the instructions. An example could be the fact that I am obliged to have players crossing, I can only choose the kind of crossing I want.

 

[Mike.]

Players will act differently on counter and on attacking. We no longer can place player on ultra defensive while we are having attacking mentality. Shouts can be good, you can use them to achieve most things, but they lack of that little bit of extra you could do in 12. It does't need to be slider, just make shouts available for all roles. I can't tell my winger to drop deep. It's idiotic if you ask me.

Stategy doesn't matter in the sence I gave Attacking/Counter as example. Can you play Defensive/Counter, or Defensive/Control? You probably could, but the thing I'm talking to is player roles and duties.

You could never make a player be ultra defensive but ultra attacking in the same time in FM12.

If you had an Advanced Forward in FM, but lowered his mentality, then that player was no longer an advanced forward at all

 

[TJD07]

Try telling your deep lying playmaker when playing attacking to sit deep and not to get forward. If you can do that, then kudos to you.

He does?
View attachment 463102View attachment 463101
The OM game was the one I could find showing him being forward the most, Swansea game is what they usually look like.
My DLP hardly ever gets into the box, only time he's in their half is when my team is basically sitting outside their goal. My BWM has a higher average position in most games.


That's with him playing as a CM, could quite as easily get him sitting even deeper if I moved him to DM.

 

[apvmoreira]

Strategy shouldn't matter. Like I said, I don't want to sacrifice one segment of the play just to accommodate other. I want to play attacking. I want my striker to do all those stuff I wrote. On this new tactic screen, I can't do it without changing mentality.


Try telling your deep lying playmaker when playing attacking to sit deep and not to get forward. If you can do that, then kudos to you.


And he will sit on one midfielder. On FM12 I could use my striker to press player with the ball, not just one player.

I've putted Cardozo chancing the ball...

 

[alexdesouza]

I'm finding it difficult to adjust. It's been a learning curve that's for sure. I've been playing since CM99 so this was a big wake up call. Thought long and hard about it and I think that I prefer the change over. Even though I can't do some of the things I used to tactically with the new system I like the simplicity. I just can't get a grasp on how each role works with one another. I'm creating a bunch of clear cut chances but not scoring. Also I can't keep a consistent run only manage 2 wins before a draw (playing with Arsenal, no major transfers, only Danilo replaced Sagna). I beat Man City 4-0 with some beautiful (virtual) football and T*ttenham 3-0 at WHL but then I go on to lose to Aston Vila away when everyone was superb morale and everything seemed perfect, Yeovil even though it was most of the (criminally underrated) Arsenal youth squad 1-0 in extra time and also drew at home to Cardiff, Crystal Palace and Hull and I should have got more than 3pts there.

All in all I don't mind the change but I wish there was more official documentation on it.

 

[miguelalves]

I'm finding it difficult to adjust. It's been a learning curve that's for sure. I've been playing since CM99 so this was a big wake up call. Thought long and hard about it and I think that I prefer the change over. Even though I can't do some of the things I used to tactically with the new system I like the simplicity. I just can't get a grasp on how each role works with one another. I'm creating a bunch of clear cut chances but not scoring. Also I can't keep a consistent run only manage 2 wins before a draw (playing with Arsenal, no major transfers, only Danilo replaced Sagna). I beat Man City 4-0 with some beautiful (virtual) football and T*ttenham 3-0 at WHL but then I go on to lose to Aston Vila away when everyone was superb morale and everything seemed perfect, Yeovil even though it was most of the (criminally underrated) Arsenal youth squad 1-0 in extra time and also drew at home to Cardiff, Crystal Palace and Hull and I should have got more than 3pts there.

All in all I don't mind the change but I wish there was more official documentation on it.

For now, don't try to hard because there are several bugs. So when you think you need to change something, remember... it might me a bug