c0nk3r

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As title says.

Currently managing Man Utd. I play a 4-2-3-1 with 2 DMs. Initially played with 2 CMs but the gap between midfield and defense was staggering, even when my d-line was set to the highest possible. Now, though, the gap between midfield and attack is the gaping one. My d-line is still maxed, and I've got fullbacks on attack duty and my AMC set on support duty to try to provide some passing options for my DMs. I play with a fluid team shape and attacking mentality (against lower teams). I've also lowered the tempo to the lowest to try to give my DMs some passing options. I don't get why a gap exists.

Also, a couple of other questions:
1. Why are my players are useless at holding on to the ball.
I watch team after team dispossess my players while they are holding up the ball. Meanwhile, I try to do the same (closing down much more, get stuck in) but fail miserably as the opposing player holds off my player easily, spins round and chips a delightful through ball to an onrushing striker. I know this sounds like frustration, and it is somewhat, but also a valid question I hope. It happens regardless of my player's (and the opposition's) dribbling or first touch or strength. My players will fail to hold up the ball, and the opposition will do so outstandingly.

2. Why don't my players work hard enough.
When my deep-lying playmaker sends a long searching ball out wide to my winger, there is always a fullback ready to intercept, or rushing back and successfully intercepting (because of question 1 above). When opposition playmakers sends a long one to the open flank, my fullbacks are never there, and opposition fullbacks are! I dispossess them somehow, and send a long ball over the top to my winger who is just slowly making their way back (they are still past the halfway line, mind) and lo and behold, the same opposition fullback is back to dispossess them. I ask this because I've set my fullbacks to attack duty to provide overlaps and create width in my forward play. And as a result, there may be gaps in defence. However, I see attacking fullbacks from the opposition do the same, and yet they're able to track back to their d-line (which is far deeper than mine too!). This regardless of whether I'm playing at a high or low tempo, short or direct passing. Also opposition wingers (in the AM strata, like mine) track back far more diligently than mine do, regardless of workrate, or team mentality.

3. With team mentality set to Attacking, players stop dribbling?
This is a weird one. There is no instruction to my wingers to dribble less, nor hold up ball. Yet the moment they get the ball, they stop, look up and attempt to find a team mate. I look at my team instructions, and the box "run at defence" is highlighted. But they don't. Set my team mentality to Counter, and suddenly they start dribbling again.

I'm really sorry if it sounds like a post in frustration. I've read the Lines and Diamonds guide in the SI forums to understand more about team mentality, shape and player roles and I thought I understood, but clearly it isn't translating into the game.

Tell me if I need to put my tactic up here.

Thanks in advance!

edit: Tactics and instructions are up.
 
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Without your tactic and instructions, it's very difficult to tell you anything.
 
Hi WJ, tactics and instructions are up. I only have player instructions on my fullbacks to cross from deep, everything else is default.
 
Up the tempo, you're basically telling your team. "Close them down but don't run."
 
I thought tempo only applied to when my team is in possession of the ball? When opposing team has the ball, don't they dictate the tempo?
 
Yeah, tempo is an in-possession instruction only.
 
Hi, thanks for confirming that WJ :)

Any other advice? hehe
 
Hi, thanks for confirming that WJ :)

Any other advice? hehe

I'd break up the Fellaini-Schweinsteiger partnershipas neither of them are that quick or agile. Maybe drop Herrera deeper? I'd increase the tempo as well.
 
Hi, thanks for confirming that WJ :)

Any other advice? hehe
I've been looking at your tactic and the questions you've posed, so it was taking a while.


Why are my players are useless at holding on to the ball
It's your mentality. Attacking mentality will instruct your players to take a lot of risks in everything they do. You talk about holding up the ball, but that won't happen too much with that mentality. If you're looking for slower build-up play, drop the tempo more or (my recommendation) drop the mentality to something lower.

Why don't my players work hard enough.
They actually do. They're working their arses off to plug gaps.

The problem currently, is that in transition, your shape is a mess. The fullbacks are very attacking (which is fine) but the midfielders get forward too. Now in transition, the DMs are breaking their back to get BACK and WIDE to cover for the fullbacks. That opens space in the middle suddenly. So in transition, there's space everywhere. The 4-2-3-1 was originally thought up to allow 2 fullbacks to attack, but still have stability in 2 holding midfielders screening the defence. Your holding midfielders (with their support duties) will only screen the defence in the defensive phase, not defensive transition as well.

Opposition fullbacks often have only 1 attack duty - at most. This is why they're more stable. That attack duty is also covered by a Defend duty midfielder.

With team mentality set to Attacking, players stop dribbling?
This is a strange one as I'd expect Attacking mentality players to really go for it with their dribbles.

There are 2 issues. The first you can control and the other you can't.

1 - Your players don't have the space to do so. I know they're on Winger/Support duties, but they don't have space and there are 2 reasons. a) The attacking mentality, sees them making constant short bursts forward - where a fullback will be waiting. b) If they do get the ball, the fullback is on them in a flash.

The big thing? Get them into more space to get them time and up to speed.

2 - Dribbling AI could be better and see players attempt dribbles (on more attacking mentalities) even when on top of a defender. Sometimes all you'll see are passes back/sideways where they could have been more aggressive. The ME is still being worked on, so we might see this at release or later.
 
Use 2 CMs instead. One playmaker, i prefer advanced and one ball winner

Don't pump ball into box
Since you use lower tempo, use shorter passing.
Use work ball into box
Use play out of defense
Use pass into space
Use control and very fluid shape



So far im still at the top of the league after 10 games.
 
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Use 2 CMs instead. One playmaker, i prefer advanced and one ball winner

Don't pump ball into box
Since you use lower tempo, use shorter passing.
Use work ball into box
Use play out of defense
Use pass into space
Use control and very fluid shape



So far im still at the top of the league after 10 games.
One question to cover all of that. Why?

Just giving random advice helps nobody. What are your reasons?
 
Is WJ an abbreviation for White Jesus?

You must be, because you're a FRICKIN' MIRACLE WORKER.

Thanks so much for the breakdown, especially the bit about transition and space. Learned a lot today.

My team controls the game much better now, save for some random brain farts. Wingers still won't dribble, but that's okay now, because my fullbacks are doing some maaaad overlapping.


And ninjapug, I'm top of the table too! (Although I should be, I'm playing United.)
Just needed more control over the match. Hate the nail-biting end-to-end stuff. Maybe I watch too much LVG. :(
 
Haha, thanks, but it's my initials.

It took me about 30 mins to view parts of a match. I really recommend doing that. It shows you a lot.
 
I had the same problems as you, the only thing different where the tactics. I've tried a 4-3-2-1 and a 4-4-2, and after reading he tactics posted here and changed to a 4-2-3-1 as everybody else, things worked out great!

I must assume that the AMC this year is the position....
 
I had the same problems as you, the only thing different where the tactics. I've tried a 4-3-2-1 and a 4-4-2, and after reading he tactics posted here and changed to a 4-2-3-1 as everybody else, things worked out great!

I must assume that the AMC this year is the position....

Weird thing though... I can't seem to get my AMC to perform. Not Mata, nor Herrera, nor Rooney. AP, AMC, EG, SS... They get like a rating of 6.9 max even when I dominate and win 5-0. Not really concerned though, since the match engine shows me that they're doing the job asked of them, which is to spray passes wide to the wingers or overlapping fullbacks.
 
WNot really concerned though, since the match engine shows me that they're doing the job asked of them, which is to spray passes wide to the wingers or overlapping fullbacks.
That's a key point. As long as the player does what you want of him, that's great. I think of the ratings as media ratings. The headline stuff, goals and assists, etc, will get praise. The guy that makes everything tick flies below the radar but isn't any less important.
 
That's a key point. As long as the player does what you want of him, that's great. I think of the ratings as media ratings. The headline stuff, goals and assists, etc, will get praise. The guy that makes everything tick flies below the radar but isn't any less important.

Yeah but then they don't sell for as much :p
 
Yeah but then they don't sell for as much :p
Tell Luka Modric. ;)

I always think of him when this topic comes up. Didn't score many goals and didn't get many assists either. Then someone looked into his play and wrote an article about him. It turns out, he made the midfield tick. He had an amazing amount of passes to the player who got the assist. There isn't a stat for that, but it's an important aspect of play!
 
Tell Luka Modric. ;)

I always think of him when this topic comes up. Didn't score many goals and didn't get many assists either. Then someone looked into his play and wrote an article about him. It turns out, he made the midfield tick. He had an amazing amount of passes to the player who got the assist. There isn't a stat for that, but it's an important aspect of play!

I always wonder how Modric never got the same recognition Xavi or Pirlo or Scholes did for controlling the play. Just completely under the radar until that article about his "assist" rate. Even now it's Kroos that fills up majority of the headlines.
 
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