Problem against heavy possesion 4-1-2-3

[duca015]

Well this is the first...

I never had any problem to sort out solution for tactics, but now, I think I am going a little crazy here...

I am playing Serbian Crvena Zvezda (or Red star), and I was drawed against one of Maccabies or Hapoels in LE...

They play heavy possession tactic, 4 - 1- 2 -2 wingers -1. At first game at home, I lost 3-2. They had 65% on the ball, and while I had no problem creating chances while I was in possession of ball, I had it for very little time, so this is my main problem. I tried to solve it for next game, and it was disastrous, which I will come to this latter...

First about them - they have very attacking minded right fullback, and their left fullback hardly ever enters to my 30 meters. They play from defense, and their DM is something between HB or Anchorman, as he rarely leaves his position. For two central midfielders, they are, I think, some BMB sort of players, and their right winger is either RMD or INF, as he often goes into middle and cuts inside. Their left winger is some sort of AP, or maybe INF on support, and their striker is either Advanced forward, or DLF on attack duty, or F9.

They are probably some counter, or even defensive mentality, since I had much more shoots and scoring chances then they did. almost every time we played.

I have stronger team then they do, but I seem can not find solution on how to get possession at least little bit in my favor, so I can create more chances and win this game.

Basically, I play 4-4-2 on counter, high defensive line, with mixed closing down instruction, and so far I have had no problem. I played against better opposition, and I had no big issues with possession or creating chances. I had no huge holes that opponent can exploit.

But all three goals that they have scored were the same - long deep cross from 40 meters, that they catch and scored goal. So it is not tactical problem, it is problem of my players mistakes. On offensive end, I have two small strikers, which would be better off if there was space behind defense to exploit, but there is non. So I have tried to include them more into game, by giving them DLF role, or F9 role, or Treq role, to try to find space, but all the time, it comes down to this - they receive the ball, they try to dribble, hit the wall of their two CBs and their DM, and lose the ball. Now, I tried to put DLF role, give them free roam pass, and dribble less instruction, and it ends almost same. Then i tried to put only one striker, I had same problem, I tried without striker, I was too deep. Then I tried with three striker, to avoid almost any possession game ,and to try to get to their goal as soon as possible, and there was almost same result, only, I was disastrous at the back, as my back three were all over the pitch, and since it was not working offensively, there was no point in getting my defense sorted out. So I tried with 3-6-1, 3-5-2 formation, with or without DM, with or without AM, I tried different roles to players, different mentalities, I tried even marking and heavy closing down... I just can not find way to get possession numbers up, hence I can not score goals I need.

I do not need for someone to give me formation I should use, but I would like for someone to explain to me how to beat this heavy possession based team. What I need to achieve, where to look for solution, because, I am all out of ideas...

 

[Dobrin]

I have two versions: the long story or the short story.

I give you the long story first. I see some problems in your tactic. When you play counter is a good practice to not defend high on the pitch. The idea is to let them come in your half and them surprise them by getting the ball, through it to your strikers and score in a swift manner. I would drop my defense line a bit deeper. Because of your high defensive line you can be caught with long deep crosses, as you described, especially if your fullbacks are launching in attack in that moment.

If they have a very good possession is only because you let them play the ball. Try to increase closing down and especially select Get Stuck in option from team instructions. Try to mark tight their best attacking players (striker and one of their wingers or INF), and sometimes is useful to assign one of your strikers to man mark their striker. If they scored only with their striker, which received the ball and take few steps and then shoot, I suggest to put one of your center backs as stopper and the other one as cover. With this setup, sometimes, you have a better chance to tackle the striker, because he will be attacked very early by your stopper and if this fails, next will be attacked by your cover DC.

The short story: try Tweebier 2233 tactic and you'll crush them.

 

[duca015]

Thanks for advice...

The thing with my counter mentality and my high defensive positioning is little bit unorthodox solution to some problems I was facing due to my players limitations, as well to competition I am facing in Serbian league. I know it may seem little bit unbalanced, but I assure you it is working, as I already crashed Sampdoria, Celtic and some other teams that are better then I am.
These situation are rare, and it is indeed problem with my setup, but it happens rarely, and I am aware that this may happened, so I do not see this as huge issue. As I see it, there is no perfect tactics, and every tactics has its flows.

So for this opponent, I must change setup, as they found my Achilles heel. But regarding man marking their most advanced players, it is not working, as they tend to kill time on their own half, and I need to score... Also, hard tackling is not an option, as my players pick up cards like crazy for some reason, and only against this opposition, as normally I have no more then 5-6 fauls a game. Here they commit over 20...

I had some limited success with ultra attacking, high pressing 3-4-2-1 (2AMC), but after very good 60 minutes they destroyed my back three with diagonal crosses and counter attacks...

I already have lost second leg, but I see it as puzzle I have to solve and I have save it on another save slot just so I could solve this problem I had.

It is actually intriguing for me, as it is most challenging problem I have yet faced in this FM...

 

[Dobrin]

You have to assume some yellow cards and a lot of faults to disrupt their heavy possession, by selecting Get Stuck In and increasing closing down. You have to observe where is the area where they are passing more. They pass more with their defensive players or with the middle players? Lets suppose they pass a lot with midfielders, then your midfielders should attack them relentless. Enter the player instructions and increase closing down for your midfielders, wingers and strikers, also select tight marking.

Download this tactic to see how you can suffocate your enemy (you will have 60% possession and they will not pass over 57% pass completed in first half match) 2233 very fluid control(2)

 

[duca015]

I tried this tactic, but it was not successful. I seem to lack better striker for this tactic, as I have problems going forward, and they easily beat me on break, as this tactic is too undisciplined and too offensive.

But it did however helped me to create my own tactic that is little bit less offensive, but more stable at back. And attacks are bit more controlled and less trough wings... Anyway, I finally beat them with this modification... I find this match engine very confusing sometimes... Without aggressive approach, I had 20+ fauls and 7-10 yellow cards (sometimes even red card), and with this aggressive approach, I had 15 fauls and maybe 3 yellow cards. I also forced him to have about same number of fauls and about same number of yellow cards....

I have to say that after all this, I found out that my main problem is quality of my striker and quality of his stoppers... It turns out that their best player is stopper... 8-|

Once I had control over possession, this problem was less evident, but it still could be seen...

https://www.mediafire.com/download/tq49xxdg4bsyi2a/2233_very_fluid_control_modification_6513677D-9B11-4EBE-BFFC-A16AE8DE66B0.fmf

Here is tactic that helped me... It is little bit different... Basic idea of suffocating opponent is acquired, but way the team attacking with the ball is bit different little bit less aggressive, more adopted to players I have...

 

[Dobrin]

I'm glad that you figured out how to beat them. Tweebier tactic is depending especially of the quality of wingbacks. I played as Southampton and with this tactic Cedric has 16 assists in 24 games, and the other wingback, Ryan Bertrand has 10 assists in 16 games. Also, very helpful are a tall pacey center back and a tall striker.

I forget to tell about an important tweak. You have to reduce just a tick of closing down for only one of your center backs, from Sometimes to Less (player instructions). This is very useful against teams with a lonely striker. As it is, in Tweebier original tactic, it happens often that both your center backs to jump on the same striker and they leave a gap behind. With this tweak, one of them will remain just a step or two behind.

I know there are problems with yellow cards. Worse game I have 8 yellow cards against Arsenal, but I beat them. When I want to avoid yellow cards, I have to see when a player receive a warning and then I deselect in player instructions "tackle harder".

I downloaded your modification and I understand you've adapted to your players. However, this tactic is based on the crosses made by wingbacks, but in your modification seems you will have only your striker able to receive those many crosses. I suggest to change the role of one of your wingers in inside forward, for increasing the number of players that could receive crosses.

 

[duca015]

Actually no... I slowed down a pace of game little bit with these modification... I still have semi RMP-s in middle, but they are now CM-s/a without dribble more instructions, so they, basically have almost same function, but difference is that rest of the team see them less as playmakers, but as link players.
The main creative force then become wingers, that are coming in middle ,which leave huge gaps on wings, and while movement of my wingers is changing dynamic of play, it also slow down complete attacking gameplan, so this gives more time for other winger and CM on attack duty to come to the box and on the end of crosses.
Also, this gives much more play trough middle of the field, and it is not based solely on my wingbacks... I see much more passes trough middle, I see more space for my small striker...

I understood that you do need some tall player upfront to be able to use tactic you recommended, but I just dont have one...

 

[Dobrin]

I see. Good luck!