[TACTICAL DISCUSSION] Efficient and effective

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AayushCFC

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The trend here at FM-Base seems to be all about dominating possession, playing pretty football, most people have a lot of shots and SOTs but none seem to score a lot. I'll say if you watch the game, you'll realize most of those efforts don't deserve to go in. When you dominate, opposition camps in it's own half, giving you less space to operate freely, so the shots are poorly struck ones, mostly direct on Goalkeeper.

However I like to play Counter-Attacking football, in this way my attacking players have acres of space as they catch opposition in disoriented defensive shape. Most 2v1, 3v2 situations on counter. My players also have all the time in the world to make a decision instead of directly shooting at GK.

I do not play specific tactic with specific formation instructions. (Vary according to opposition and weather at times). But general theme is catching opposition on the break when they are in bad defensive shape.

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For what it's worth, Everton's midfielder McCarthy had 113 passes. Max passes among my players were b/w Left Fullback Liam Ridgewell and GK Myhill.

Edit: I think I forgot to mention and nor does my Screenshot highlight, I was playing as West Brom.
 
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I'm also a fan of this approach. However I never manage to get this work. Or at least make it work for a consistent run.

But how do you play counter? I mean there is the high pressing counter (Mourinho/Klopp), the deep one and probably another to deny space, a mix between a medium and low d-line. Hope you get my point.
What's your thoughts on this?
 
I play the deeper one since I'm an underdog, but it also has bits from Mourinho/Klopp like pressing high, most teams playing deep counter don't press since they can themselves get caught in bad defensive shape.

This is my first season, however I keep developing tactic as my team changes. I also keep making in-game chages. I start with a standard 4-3-3 but if I see that they're battering me left and right and I'm struggling going forward, I take risk and out a CAM for DM, changing it to 4-2-3-1, most instructions remain same though. With this tactic, I've noticed that most first half ends 0-0, my team starts scoring in second half when opposition gets tired.

I sometimes remove "hassle opponents" and "deep defensive line" when 1-0 down and unable to break the opposition. It also helps if the wide players can play through balls. I'll post details in a minute. Not many seem interested in "non-pretty" football, eh.
 
So, it's pretty standard 4-3-3, I introduce a CAM for CM/DM and change it to 4-2-3-1. I do a keep a BWM on the field in this tactic. I played a pretty weak line-up against Everton, Introduced Anelka for Gera, Berahino went to CAM as Shadow Striker with Anelka as DLF (Attack)

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I also change defender's role according to opposition, for eg if you're facing the likes of Arsenal with buttload of creative players with "Tries killer balls often" PPM, I change one of my defender to Cover (yes, even when playing a deep defensive line), I've got a pacey defender for that.

Instructions:
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I change from shorter to direct passing in game after watching how my passing is going. Intructions aren't followed even in "very rigid" and players still play long balls for Shane Long to run unto. If I don't select Work ball into the box, they'll end up taking long useless shots. Also in rainy weather, I never go shorter passing, never.

This is my standard lineup when facing the big guns, I introduce Gera for Annan and mostly Berahino at half time, my two pet subs. Berahino has scored and assisted a lot, forming a great partnership with Shane Long

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I also change fullback duties, generally it remains at support or automatic, but I go defensive when facing direct wingers who will use width, instead of inside forwards who cut in. And I go Attack when facing teams like Southamton who play narrow 4-2-3-1 with 3CAMs.

It's not a particular tactic but general mentality.
 
If you want to know anything else, let me know.

I also have player instructions, Mostly "Close down more" to Fullbacks and Midfielders and Roam from position to Wingers and Striker.
 
I would certainly query Hassle Opponents and Work ball into box. With Hassle Opponents you team is going to be loosing its shape in order to close players down, in a Counter Attacking system this is contradicting and will leave gaps for the opposition to exploit. You want to stay on your feet and let the opposition come onto you. With Work ball into box you are in some ways slowing down the play too once you gain possession which is the last thing you want - with the personnel you have I would look to experiment with clear ball to flanks or maybe even exploit the flanks. Short passing I do agree with as it is important to note in a Counter attacking system you only go Direct when the counter is "on". Otherwise you don't just want your side lumping it to the lone striker so retaining possession is important. I absolutely would not have closing down on any of your players however.

In my system I have an anchor man with a deep lying playmaker (defend) and box to box midfielder as the midfield two. This really works well and holds shape perfectly. This way the Anchor Man will sit deep and brush things up, then give the ball to the deep lying playmaker who will then spray the ball out where neccesary - when having a box to box midfielder working off a Target Man/CF this can work very well. Something else for you to think about.

Report back how you get on.
 
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ShaunWolf90 said:
I would certainly query Hassle Opponents and Work ball into box. With Hassle Opponents you team is going to be loosing its shape in order to close players down, in a Counter Attacking system this is contradicting and will leave gaps for the opposition to exploit. You want to stay on your feet and let the opposition come onto you. With Work ball into box you are in some ways slowing down the play too once you gain possession which is the last thing you want - with the personnel you have I would look to experiment with clear ball to flanks or maybe even exploit the flanks. Short passing I do agree with as it is important to note in a Counter attacking system you only go Direct when the counter is "on". Otherwise you don't just want your side lumping it to the lone striker so retaining possession is important. I absolutely would not have closing down on any of your players however.

In my system I have an anchor man with a deep lying playmaker (defend) and box to box midfielder as the midfield two. This really works well and holds shape perfectly. This way the Anchor Man will sit deep and brush things up, then give the ball to the deep lying playmaker who will then spray the ball out where neccesary - when having a box to box midfielder working off a Target Man/CF this can work very well. Something else for you to think about.

Report back how you get on.
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Yup, I know hassle opponents is very contradicting to the approach I'm talking about, but pressing on FM isn't how it is done in real life. Since I play deeper line, it's mostly my midfield and attacking players who do the pressing, my defenders stay in proper shape. I press not to win possession, but to not allow opposition play freely. Stand off opponents will allow them to play freely while you park the bus.

Again I'm talking about general theme of the player, my specific instructions are quite absurd on paper, I couldn't believe it myself when they worked, then I watched full matches. This is Match Engine, works far different that things do in reality, without "Work ball into the box" most of chances I create on counter are wasted as players just look for long shots, even when 2v1 with the GK
The instruction description itself says it means "patiently" playing and waiting for an opening, which is utterly opposite to what's done in Counter-Attacking, but even with this instruction, it seems to work, otherwise players just keep taking shots from weird angles and long range, which rarely have a chance of going in.

Despite "Shorter passing" instruction, I've seen most of my players including defenders play long balls for my Striker to latch onto, a lot of them. Shane Long has 18 acceleration, he's in outrageous form because he is most reliable striker who will finish CCCs, does for me.

Theoretically, those instructions make me look stupid, I know.

I'm not tactically stubborn like Rafa Benitez, I also use Stand off opponents when facing the likes of Arsenal away. recently drew 1-1 after going down to 9 men.
 
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Hassling opponents also results in opposition players taking long shots, since I play a deep line and my midfield is fluid (I have roam from position player instructions), so my wingers track back and help FB, it's like whole team is defending, even Shane Long when I play him as DLF.
 
Also to add to this, I developed this tactic with Chelsea, who have player far more capable of individual brilliance, so it's not really an underdog tactic. Although I did try this on English NT and won the WC, beating Spain in Semis (Courtesy of Casillas own goal, then I parked the bus).
 
In fairness bud, its all about results and yours back it up. Your system is ironically very similar to mine - only I use Pass Into Space, hit early crosses & Float Crosses, down to personal preference really aswell as using a big Target Man.

Have you completed a full season?
 
Can I also see a Screenshot of when you use a Shadow Striker? That is an interesting concept.
 
I would also add it is worth considering bumping this up to a Rigid philosophy as this only actually has 3 specialist roles.
 
It is for home games, against similar, slightly better and worse opponents, (Attacking 4-2-3-1). I do use Stand off opponents in games where I just go for a draw. Just like Stoke's hoof-ball. Go route one, Stand off, Run etc.

The Shadow striker formation is somewhat like 4-2-4 but with a player who also helps in midfield. Berahino and Long have formed an impeccable striking partnership. Even Anelka can play as Shadow Striker. I miss the feature of FM13 where we could set two players to swap positions, would've been impossible to mark my Striker.

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Players

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Berahino should've had 12 goals, one of his goals was labelled Own Goal 'cause of this buggy patch.
 
Interesting stuff.

Given your results, I would recommend you uploading these tactics for users to take a look at, you seem on to something.
 
ShaunWolf90 said:
I would also add it is worth considering bumping this up to a Rigid philosophy as this only actually has 3 specialist roles.
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Yup, I even have another 4-3-3 with rigid philosophy in 3rd slot already. This one is classic counter-attacking, not the one we've been seeing under the likes of Klopp/Mourinho.
 
Nice results! I think this would fit my Soton side quite well. Could you upload it?

Thanks :)
 
ShaunWolf90 said:
Interesting stuff.

Given your results, I would recommend you uploading these tactics for users to take a look at, you seem on to something.
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I don't upload tactics because I don't use one consistently, and with West Brom, I don't get too many opportunities to test tactics anyway.
I even keep changing roles in this 4-2-3-1, with Shane Long as Poacher with AP (attack) behind him, Ince on left as Winger with Amalfitano as Winger on right, feeding Shane Long. I use this when facing slow but extremely good defenders (a la John Terry).
Also in the matches I've used this, the results have been fairly good, not excellent.
I use about 4-5 tactics during whole season, changing stuff. It's generally a mixture of two so fluidity doesn't get effected much, I work on a tactical theme rather that specific tactics.
 
Raykillz said:
Nice results! I think this would fit my Soton side quite well. Could you upload it?

Thanks :)
Click to expand...

I do recommend changing player roles to counter your oppositions' threats and exploit weakness, you'd know what and how since you've read this thread.

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Didn't know which one you asked for. Don't use "Hassle opponents" when facing top sides away from home.
 
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