Wales 0-2 England: Match Report

[CJACKO11]

Will add it is a good read GodCubed and i enjoyed the U21 report too. Maybe we can see more from you in the big games coming up.

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thought he was classy today, played exactly how he does for chelsea, think if rooney had been up front, the ball would have been held up more often for him to get on to it late and shoot more.

I thought Rooney had a really good game right up until he got booked and then he eased off abit which was a huge shame because he was looking really dangerous early on. I rekon if Rooney didnt get booked then we would have gone and got more goals.

 

[Mike.]

Maybe thats why he has been limited at international level in the past because playing along side Rio he lets Rio be the one that carrys the ball because he is better at it.

yeah agreed, but even with rio playing i'd like to see him take on more responsibility doing

 

[fuelledbypassion]

Great stuff GC, pretty much spot on analysis, is Andy Gray's old job still available?
I think Parker deserved an 8 though personally, don't recall him putting a foot wrong all game and he pressed really well. Will you be analysing the midweek game? Would be an interesting read.

 

[Mike.]

Will add it is a good read GodCubed and i enjoyed the U21 report too. Maybe we can see more from you in the big games coming up.

---------- Post added at 12:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:22 AM ----------



I thought Rooney had a really good game right up until he got booked and then he eased off abit which was a huge shame because he was looking really dangerous early on. I rekon if Rooney didnt get booked then we would have gone and got more goals.

yeah think he was too fired up and wanting to get involved. left wing restrains him a bit if the ball isnt held up by the striker

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My only gripe is that when Wales went 4-3-3, we didnt go 4-2-3-1 and look to kill it off with a third, better teams might have come back if we give them the space we gave wales

 

[CJACKO11]

yeah agreed, but even with rio playing i'd like to see him take on more responsibility doing

I think it depends who is playing because when he plays at Chelsea alongside Luiz they both get forward. But at Chelsea we have Cole, Ivanovic, Essien, Lampard and Ramires who will all cover if the attack breaks down and they are out of position. But at international level if both gets caught then England dont natuarly have a Essien/Ramires type player who will sit back and Johnson is more attaking than defensive. We all saw Ozil out run Barry at the WC (along with many other players) and i think their is a fear they will be caught on the break with limited numbers.

 

[GodCubed]

Great stuff GC, pretty much spot on analysis, is Andy Gray's old job still available?
I think Parker deserved an 8 though personally, don't recall him putting a foot wrong all game and he pressed really well. Will you be analysing the midweek game? Would be an interesting read.

I'd have to brush up on my sexism. I hope I have the latent prejudice somewhere within me, but it'll be tough.

Agreed on Parker, it was a tough decision really. He marked Ramsey out of the game, but I don't know how much of that was Ramsey not being sharp enough or Parker's skill. Still, encouraging display.

Yeah, if people enjoy this I suppose I could do the midweek game.

 

[Joel`]

Ha! If I can ever reach the kind of levels Ix does in her writing I would be extremely pleased. My writing is pretty limited right now, and is pretty boring to read. But I'm improving, I just don't have too much understanding of how to write these reports.

Gotta start somewhere. I thought it was good, split into small, digestible parts. Perhaps too much focus was on Wilshere/Ramsey though, was by far the largest section and could probably have been a tad more concise; if I were to criticise.

 

[GodCubed]

Gotta start somewhere. I thought it was good, split into small, digestible parts. Perhaps too much focus was on Wilshere/Ramsey though, was by far the largest section and could probably have been a tad more concise; if I were to criticise.

To be fair to me, I promised Joss I'd do a segment on it and didn't want to be too conservative with the size.

 

[Mike.]

I think it depends who is playing because when he plays at Chelsea alongside Luiz they both get forward. But at Chelsea we have Cole, Ivanovic, Essien, Lampard and Ramires who will all cover if the attack breaks down and they are out of position. But at international level if both gets caught then England dont natuarly have a Essien/Ramires type player who will sit back and Johnson is more attaking than defensive. We all saw Ozil out run Barry at the WC (along with many other players) and i think their is a fear they will be caught on the break with limited numbers.

We have parker to cover. He doesnt need to carry it all the way, but i'd like to see more of his short passing though

 

[Joss]

Interesting. Elaborate?

Sorry - a little late in reply..

I stick to my assertion that Wilshere played slightly ahead of Lampard - I'm willing to be proved wrong when Ix gives me the average positions for the game, but it seemed as if Wilshere had a freer role than Lampard.

Both players like to drive from deeper positions (part of the reason playing Lampard as a trequarista in a Chelsea diamond simply didn't work), but Lampard was able to use his experience to form a really good relationship with both Parker and Wilshere - letting Wilshere drive on and covering for him if/when necessary but also able to drive on himself (partly because Wales' CMs were largely non-existent)

The only thing I was worried about in a possible 2 man CM with Wilshere and Parker (not 4-4-2, don't worry! 4-2-3-1..) was whether Parker would have the discipline to be more defensive than he usually is. He literally plays box to box and while Song does this to an extent, he's

A) Still naturally a DM (CB but still) and
B) Had a whole season + pre-season and training every day to form a relationship with him on the pitch, whereas Parker has had a couple of days training...

... and whether Wilshere would have the awareness at 19 to drop back and cover for Parker when he bombs forward since they'd be unlikely to get support that deep from Rooney.

Actually, though - Lampard's more conservative role allows Wilshere to get to grips with the rest of the side etc. while Parker was very disciplined in his marking of Ramsey - he wasn't drawn out of position and he put in a superb performance.

 

[CJACKO11]

We have parker to cover. He doesnt need to carry it all the way, but i'd like to see more of his short passing though

Yer thats what i mean we didnt have people who could cover but we do now if you get me lol.

 

[Mike.]

Sorry - a little late in reply..

I stick to my assertion that Wilshere played slightly ahead of Lampard - I'm willing to be proved wrong when Ix gives me the average positions for the game, but it seemed as if Wilshere had a freer role than Lampard.

Both players like to drive from deeper positions (part of the reason playing Lampard as a trequarista in a Chelsea diamond simply didn't work), but Lampard was able to use his experience to form a really good relationship with both Parker and Wilshere - letting Wilshere drive on and covering for him if/when necessary but also able to drive on himself (partly because Wales' CMs were largely non-existent)

The only thing I was worried about in a possible 2 man CM with Wilshere and Parker (not 4-4-2, don't worry! 4-2-3-1..) was whether Parker would have the discipline to be more defensive than he usually is. He literally plays box to box and while Song does this to an extent, he's

A) Still naturally a DM (CB but still) and
B) Had a whole season + pre-season and training every day to form a relationship with him on the pitch, whereas Parker has had a couple of days training...

... and whether Wilshere would have the awareness at 19 to drop back and cover for Parker when he bombs forward since they'd be unlikely to get support that deep from Rooney.

Actually, though - Lampard's more conservative role allows Wilshere to get to grips with the rest of the side etc. while Parker was very disciplined in his marking of Ramsey - he wasn't drawn out of position and he put in a superb performance.

lampards role wasnt any more conservative than usual, there was specific game plan, thats what was good about this, wilshere's natural game is more aggressive than lampard, whose game isnt about driving forward but arriving late. when carroll plays up top and the ball is held up more you will see him on those chelsea positions, there wasnt any tactical staggering of the midfield. Lampard ran the same lines as he would at chelsea, only his partner is more aggressive offensively than Essien

Of course Parker had the discipline, Box to Box doesnt mean run everywhere, in fact a true Box to Box mid requires tremendous discipline, its not about getting forwards, but WHEN, and he does it so well. He was always going to slip in naturally, which is what angers me about why he wasnt at the world cup

 

[GodCubed]

lampards role wasnt any more conservative than usual, there was specific game plan, thats what was good about this, wilshere's natural game is more aggressive than lampard, whose game isnt about driving forward but arriving late. when carroll plays up top and the ball is held up more you will see him on those chelsea positions, there wasnt any tactical staggering of the midfield. Lampard ran the same lines as he would at chelsea, only his partner is more aggressive offensively than Essien

Of course Parker had the discipline, Box to Box doesnt mean run everywhere, in fact a true Box to Box mid requires tremendous discipline, its not about getting forwards, but WHEN, and he does it so well. He was always going to slip in naturally, which is what angers me about why he wasnt at the world cup

Disagree about Lampard's role being the same as normal. He was more conservative: he plays almost exclusively at the tip of the triangle for Chelsea, whereas here he was floating around sometimes beside, sometimes in front of, sometimes behind Wilshere and even Parker. I think there was a tactical staggering of the midfield, if we accept that Parker was meant to be deeper than the other two, and Capello knew that Wilshere would be more effervescent than the more stationary Lampard. Lampard didn't run the same lines as at Chelsea; in your post alone, you've just admitted his partner is more offensive than Essien. It wouldn't be possible for Lampard to run his lines without either hindering Wilshere or leaving the midfield wide open.

Joss has a point about Parker too. In the West Ham midfield, he can go and do more or less anything he wants. It's a free role, if you like, because he has disciplined players like Noble and Hitzlsperger alongside him. Still, he's proved he's disciplined now, so that's good.

 

[alicwkd]

Only saw the second half unfortunately as I was at the Charlton match. Dissapointed as I would have liked to have seen what sounds like an encouraging performnace by us.

Most of us wanted 4-2-3-1 before the match, but with the chosen 4-3-3 Capello basically picked the starting 11 I and most would have done. The reason, for me, that I wouldn't have chosen 4-3-3 is that I don't think you see the best of Rooney. However, it sounds like he had a good game today, so I will reserve judgement on him in that position for England until he has played a few more games there.

 

[Joss]

lampards role wasnt any more conservative than usual, there was specific game plan, thats what was good about this, wilshere's natural game is more aggressive than lampard, whose game isnt about driving forward but arriving late. when carroll plays up top and the ball is held up more you will see him on those chelsea positions, there wasnt any tactical staggering of the midfield. Lampard ran the same lines as he would at chelsea, only his partner is more aggressive offensively than Essien

Of course Parker had the discipline, Box to Box doesnt mean run everywhere, in fact a true Box to Box mid requires tremendous discipline, its not about getting forwards, but WHEN, and he does it so well. He was always going to slip in naturally, which is what angers me about why he wasnt at the world cup

Re: Parker, just to avoid confusion - I'm not suggestion his discipline surprised me because I don't think he's good enough - just that, as GC said it was less box to box and more holding - played behind Lampard and Wilshere and wasn't really allowed much freedom to get forward (always going to the case with those 2 ahead of you).

But I agree completely - he slipped in completely naturally and all 3 had a brilliant understanding.

 

[Mike.]

Disagree about Lampard's role being the same as normal. He was more conservative: he plays almost exclusively at the tip of the triangle for Chelsea, whereas here he was floating around sometimes beside, sometimes in front of, sometimes behind Wilshere and even Parker. I think there was a tactical staggering of the midfield, if we accept that Parker was meant to be deeper than the other two, and Capello knew that Wilshere would be more effervescent than the more stationary Lampard. Lampard didn't run the same lines as at Chelsea; in your post alone, you've just admitted his partner is more offensive than Essien. It wouldn't be possible for Lampard to run his lines without either hindering Wilshere or leaving the midfield wide open.

Joss has a point about Parker too. In the West Ham midfield, he can go and do more or less anything he wants. It's a free role, if you like, because he has disciplined players like Noble and Hitzlsperger alongside him. Still, he's proved he's disciplined now, so that's good.

I meant staggering in terms of wilshere and lampard

Generally ( and im talking about classic lampard ,not this season tactical change becuase of Torres, he ran the same lines, wilshere doenst get in his way becuase lampard doesnt just get forward, he gets forward late, for the cut out pass, which he converrts oh so many times. this lampard tonight was the one you see play all last season for chelsea, and like i say previously, if the ball was held up more he would arrive for that pass for england

Joss there were certainly points where he was ahead of both wilshere and lampard

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Only saw the second half unfortunately as I was at the Charlton match. Dissapointed as I would have liked to have seen what sounds like an encouraging performnace by us.

Most of us wanted 4-2-3-1 before the match, but with the chosen 4-3-3 Capello basically picked the starting 11 I and most would have done. The reason, for me, that I wouldn't have chosen 4-3-3 is that I don't think you see the best of Rooney. However, it sounds like he had a good game today, so I will reserve judgement on him in that position for England until he has played a few more games there.

Rooneys issue with the left wing is that, unless you can hold the ball up top (Carroll) he cant get involved too much drifting off. Even so he still had a good game today, and you are right about the starting 11, except i would have taken Kyle Walker