Who to Replace Rooney? Capello's Dilemma After Red Mist

[Tafftalk]

I think leaving Rooney out of the friendlies could go two ways... Either; it works a treat because we learn to play without him as a team and show there's more to us than two or three world-class players surrounded by several players who look like they'd have more fun cleaning a toilet than pulling on an England shirt.

OR... Without Rooney - the tactical lynch-pin of the side - the side doesn't do so well in the friendlies building up to the tournament, and goes to Poland/Ukraine low on confidence and trying too hard to change the system to accommodate Rooney's absence.

Realistically speaking, is Capello actually going to take the smart option and give players like Sturridge, Wilshere, or Gerrard a chance in the hole? Or is he just going to go back to the boring 4-4-2 with Carroll and Defoe up front and Lampard and Gerrard in midfield doing ****** all?

I agree with the principle of dropping him, but it's still a risk. I reckon Gerrard is the best option, though - drop Wilshere back a little since that's where he's been playing for Arsenal and for England.

What? Why have Rooney in the squad. Leave Rooney. England have to learn now in the crucial friendlies what it is going to be like without Rooney and adjust the tactics accordingly, rather than wait until the Euro's to be play for the first time where he is no option.

 

[sunilvk7]

Thats how i'd play it, but i'd like to see Sturridge and Cleverley too

Forgot about Sturridge, great talent but still he needs to be fine tuned. He needs to learn to play as a team, nothing against him but I would like to see him coming off the bench and having go at tiring defenders.

Problem with Cleverley is, him and Wilshere cannot play as CM pair as they would be too lightweight. If played with 3 CMs then Rooney should play as lone striker.

 

[Mike.]

Forgot about Sturridge, great talent but still he needs to be fine tuned. He needs to learn to play as a team, nothing against him but I would like to see him coming off the bench and having go at tiring defenders.

Problem with Cleverley is, him and Wilshere cannot play as CM pair as they would be too lightweight. If played with 3 CMs then Rooney should play as lone striker.

Wilshere is out till feb, so we could try him alongside parker

think this a big opportunity for Gerrard. If anything if could even end up showing gerrard behind Rooney is the best option

 

[sunilvk7]

Wilshere is out till feb, so we could try him alongside parker

think this a big opportunity for Gerrard. If anything if could even end up showing gerrard behind Rooney is the best option

Tbf would prefer Gerrard playing as RW and Rooney in the hole. Rooney drops deep way too much which means there wont be any players stretching the defense.

I was talking about Euros so only mentioned Wilshere. Will see how Cleverley copes up against big teams before talking about England chances. I have full faith on him but like anyone he has to prove himself

 

[GodCubed]

Frankly, if he keeps performing to current standards, Fabian Delph might be worth a shout in the pivot. More all-action than Wilshere, and developing good tackling skills. Would free up Wilshere to move behind the striker and add extra bite to midfield, though Delph's a little hot-headed at times.

 

[Joss]

Can we PLEASE go one major tournament without playing Steven Gerrard on the ******* wing? We have perfectly good wingers in Walcott, Johnson, Downing, Young who can all play there better than he can.

 

[sunilvk7]

Frankly, if he keeps performing to current standards, Fabian Delph might be worth a shout in the pivot. More all-action than Wilshere, and developing good tackling skills. Would free up Wilshere to move behind the striker and add extra bite to midfield, though Delph's a little hot-headed at times.

IMO Wilshere is more suited for CM role than AM. His best asset is his ability to retain possession even in tight situations and link attack and defense. With a season under his belt Delph can play alongside Wilshere as CM pair, but chances are very slim.

Does Capello even know that there is a player by name Delph?

---------- Post added at 01:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:34 AM ----------

Can we PLEASE go one major tournament without playing Steven Gerrard on the ******* wing? We have perfectly good wingers in Walcott, Johnson, Downing, Young who can all play there better than he can.

Gerrard as RW >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gerrard as LW.

Then where do you play him?

 

[GodCubed]

Can we PLEASE go one major tournament without playing Steven Gerrard on the ******* wing? We have perfectly good wingers in Walcott, Johnson, Downing, Young who can all play there better than he can.

My thoughts exactly. Gerrard didn't work on the left in the WC, and though he's an accomplished wide-right I really wouldn't feel comfortable putting him there in the Euros.

 

[sunilvk7]

My thoughts exactly. Gerrard didn't work on the left in the WC, and though he's an accomplished wide-right I really wouldn't feel comfortable putting him there in the Euros.

There are 3 possibilities.

CM: Means sacrificing Wilshere.
AM: Means playing Rooney as lone striker which has obvious problems.
RW: He played there before and did very well.

Well 4th choice would be to find a place beside Lampard on bench.

 

[GodCubed]

IMO Wilshere is more suited for CM role than AM. His best asset is his ability to retain possession even in tight situations and link attack and defense. With a season under his belt Delph can play alongside Wilshere as CM pair, but chances are very slim.

Does Capello even know that there is a player by name Delph?

Those attributes sound exactly those an 'in the hole' player would cherish, to me. Wilshere played as an AM in the Arsenal youth team, to great effect.

Delph and Wilshere wouldn't be a good CM pairing. Both of them are, to coin a phrase, 'half-destroyers': solid enough to be deployed in a holding role alongside a proper destroyer, but neither of them are sound enough defensively to hold it together by themselves or with another half-destroyer.

Gerrard as RW >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gerrard as LW.

Then where do you play him?

This magical position called 'on the bench', where he can come off to add experience and quality at vital moments when we need a game-changer.

---------- Post added at 09:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:09 PM ----------

There are 3 possibilities.

CM: Means sacrificing Wilshere.
AM: Means playing Rooney as lone striker which has obvious problems.
RW: He played there before and did very well.

Well 4th choice would be to find a place beside Lampard on bench.

Or the fifth option. Put him on the bench and drop Lampard.

 

[Joss]

Those attributes sound exactly those an 'in the hole' player would cherish, to me. Wilshere played as an AM in the Arsenal youth team, to great effect.

Delph and Wilshere wouldn't be a good CM pairing. Both of them are, to coin a phrase, 'half-destroyers': solid enough to be deployed in a holding role alongside a proper destroyer, but neither of them are sound enough defensively to hold it together by themselves or with another half-destroyer.



This magical position called 'on the bench', where he can come off to add experience and quality at vital moments when we need a game-changer.

---------- Post added at 09:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:09 PM ----------



Or the fifth option. Put him on the bench and drop Lampard.

This. Really don't think we should be too concerned about dropping big-name (but now getting on a bit) players like Gerrard. Not completely, of course, just that they need to know they're not invincible and others need to know they can get chances.

Wilshere can play either role to great effect, it depends what you want from him. Personally, I'd play him alongside Parker in a 4-2-3-1 because we don't really have any players that competent at keeping possession and at the same time moving forward and creating chances. He'd drift around with Rooney going everywhere anyway.

 

[sunilvk7]

Those attributes sound exactly those an 'in the hole' player would cherish, to me. Wilshere played as an AM in the Arsenal youth team, to great effect.

With the season he had with Arsenal as CM, I wouldn't change his role when you got one of the best #10 in the world. Or 9 and half

Delph and Wilshere wouldn't be a good CM pairing. Both of them are, to coin a phrase, 'half-destroyers': solid enough to be deployed in a holding role alongside a proper destroyer, but neither of them are sound enough defensively to hold it together by themselves or with another half-destroyer.

Well I said with season under belt and also said chances are slim. So I agree on the whole point but not with Two half destroyers can't play together. We played with Carrick and Scholes and played our best attacking football.

This magical position called 'on the bench', where he can come off to add experience and quality at vital moments when we need a game-changer.
Or the fifth option. Put him on the bench and drop Lampard.

Well I did cover that in my 4th point, wouldn't drop Lampard out of the squad though. His experience will be handy and he has amazing ability to find himself in goal scoring positions.

---------- Post added at 01:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:54 AM ----------

This. Really don't think we should be too concerned about dropping big-name (but now getting on a bit) players like Gerrard. Not completely, of course, just that they need to know they're not invincible and others need to know they can get chances.

Wilshere can play either role to great effect, it depends what you want from him. Personally, I'd play him alongside Parker in a 4-2-3-1 because we don't really have any players that competent at keeping possession and at the same time moving forward and creating chances. He'd drift around with Rooney going everywhere anyway.

Well I dont see anything different in this post and mine. I said 4th point is to drop Gerrard and also said Wilshere is more suited to CM role. Also emphasized his ability to retain possession and link up defense and midfield

 

[GodCubed]

With the season he had with Arsenal as CM, I wouldn't change his role when you got one of the best #10 in the world. Or 9 and half

You adapt people to the situation, no matter how well they've played in another. If he can play as a #10 and we need a #10, play him there. If we have a surplus of CMs and a lack of quality AMs, he's worth a punt there.

Well I said with season under belt and also said chances are slim. So I agree on the whole point but not with Two half destroyers can't play together. We played with Carrick and Scholes and played our best attacking football.

And that last point continues to amaze me. No idea how that was pulled off. Carrick's tracking and interceptive work is ridiculously good.

Well I did cover that in my 4th point, wouldn't drop Lampard out of the squad though. His experience will be handy and he has amazing ability to find himself in goal scoring positions.

Pass. Ageing, and doesn't fit into a 4-2-3-1. Not as cultured as Gerrard, either.

 

[sunilvk7]

You adapt people to the situation, no matter how well they've played in another. If he can play as a #10 and we need a #10, play him there. If we have a surplus of CMs and a lack of quality AMs, he's worth a punt there.

So you want to sacrifice your best #10 to play youngster who has not even played that role for such a long time and in turn was superb as CM? So in one shot you are messing up 2 positions which also means Parker beside Barry.

And that last point continues to amaze me. No idea how that was pulled off. Carrick's tracking and interceptive work is ridiculously good.

Still not a destroyer isn't it. None of them were destroyers but as a team we defended. Still agree with your point on Carrick though. Very good reader of the game.

Pass. Ageing, and doesn't fit into a 4-2-3-1. Not as cultured as Gerrard, either.

4-2-3-1 is the main formation but when things dont work you need different sort of player like Lampard to switch it to 4-3-3.

I would rather take Lampard than Barry tbh. (I know Barry has played well this season but him being Barry is enough to drop him )

 

[Joss]

With the season he had with Arsenal as CM, I wouldn't change his role when you got one of the best #10 in the world. Or 9 and half


Well I said with season under belt and also said chances are slim. So I agree on the whole point but not with Two half destroyers can't play together. We played with Carrick and Scholes and played our best attacking football.



Well I did cover that in my 4th point, wouldn't drop Lampard out of the squad though. His experience will be handy and he has amazing ability to find himself in goal scoring positions.

---------- Post added at 01:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:54 AM ----------



Well I dont see anything different in this post and mine. I said 4th point is to drop Gerrard and also said Wilshere is more suited to CM role. Also emphasized his ability to retain possession and link up defense and midfield

I woz respondings 2 G0dCub3d.

 

[GodCubed]

So you want to sacrifice your best #10 to play youngster who has not even played that role for such a long time and in turn was superb as CM? So in one shot you are messing up 2 positions which also means Parker beside Barry.

Gerrard is likely our best #10, but there are a whole range of factors to consider. Gerrard's hollywood passing, his selfishness, his comparative poor touch: all of these slow England down. He's a fine, fine player, but he has never utterly convinced when playing for England, either. Please note, however, that this was originally a hypothetical situation in which Delph is playing in the first team alongside Parker, and thus it is a straight shootout between Wilshere and Gerrard.

Still not a destroyer isn't it. None of them were destroyers but as a team we defended. Still agree with your point on Carrick though. Very good reader of the game.

Well exactly, hence why I was so confused. Carrick is excellent.

4-2-3-1 is the main formation but when things dont work you need different sort of player like Lampard to switch it to 4-3-3.

I would rather take Lampard than Barry tbh. (I know Barry has played well this season but him being Barry is enough to drop him )

There's no 'need', really. A 4-3-3 is similar to a 4-2-3-1, but just not as effective for England. We'd have to sacrifice the fluidity of the team to accommodate Lampard. He's a relic of a bygone era.

Barry's a completely different type of player, and one who does fit the 4-2-3-1 well. Moreover, he has developed a good relationship with Parker in the centre of midfield.

 

[sunilvk7]

Gerrard is likely our best #10, but there are a whole range of factors to consider. Gerrard's hollywood passing, his selfishness, his comparative poor touch: all of these slow England down. He's a fine, fine player, but he has never utterly convinced when playing for England, either. Please note, however, that this was originally a hypothetical situation in which Delph is playing in the first team alongside Parker, and thus it is a straight shootout between Wilshere and Gerrard.

It was between Rooney, Gerrard and Wilshere. Anyways Rooney has been playing that role very well and I dont see the need to change it unless when he doesn't play. Then again Gerrard would be better choice imo as Wilshere is by far England's best CM.

Well exactly, hence why I was so confused. Carrick is excellent.

Is he even considered for selection? I think not. Would have made better contribution with dynamic players like Gerrard in the side. Anyways looks like his international career is over.

There's no 'need', really. A 4-3-3 is similar to a 4-2-3-1, but just not as effective for England. We'd have to sacrifice the fluidity of the team to accommodate Lampard. He's a relic of a bygone era.

Barry's a completely different type of player, and one who does fit the 4-2-3-1 well. Moreover, he has developed a good relationship with Parker in the centre of midfield.

Well we have to agree to disagree about Lampard then. At least for time being as we can judge what he brings to the table based on his performances this season.

Well Barry is a different player but I wish we dont see him in the starting 11. Parker with Wilshere should start and tbf Huddlestone should be in the squad who offers much more than Barry.

Edit: Rest of it tomorrow. Its 2:30 and have to go to office

 

[GodCubed]

It was between Rooney, Gerrard and Wilshere. Anyways Rooney has been playing that role very well and I dont see the need to change it unless when he doesn't play. Then again Gerrard would be better choice imo as Wilshere is by far England's best CM.

This was discussing the AM for the next round of matches, surely? Since this is a thread on who should replace Rooney?

Is he even considered for selection? I think not. Would have made better contribution with dynamic players like Gerrard in the side. Anyways looks like his international career is over.

Indeed, and it is a shame.

Well we have to agree to disagree about Lampard then. At least for time being as we can judge what he brings to the table based on his performances this season.

Sort of. Chelsea's 4-3-3 is still weaning itself off him.

Well Barry is a different player but I wish we dont see him in the starting 11. Parker with Wilshere should start and tbf Huddlestone should be in the squad who offers much more than Barry.

Edit: Rest of it tomorrow. Its 2:30 and have to go to office

Think Thudd's still working his way back, but I'm a huge fan.

 

[alicwkd]

--------------------Wilshere--Parker-------------------------
Milner/Johnson/Walcott---Gerrard---Young---------------------
------------------Welbeck/Bent/Defoe---------------------------

Would be my choice. Wilshere is our best CM and so must play there. Likewise with Young, he is our best winger on current form. If J Cole could rediscover close to his best form he is definitely worth inclusion in the squad, as he can be a really top player and is versatile.

 

[Lol_101]

when wilshere comes back to full fitness, he there for it.

and lol, hopefully Carrol scores too ;P